This is a discussion on $2 NLHE 6-max: We always fold vs NIT aggression?? within the online poker forums, in the Cash Game Hand Analysis section; I 3bet pre because I thought he'd fold out a lot of his raising range... I thought the 2.5 raise looked weak as well.
I think you folded prematurely here but after 280 hands you should have a pretty good read on your opponent. Had he been raising and betting draws? You have A10 in this spot so it is pretty unlikely that he has an ace, seems more like he has another pocket pair like 10s-KK. I say that because with your ace left, there is only one more ace and if he had something like AK or AQ, then he likely would have 4 bet you preflop although AQ or AJ could have flatted (AK could, but that is much more unlikely because you 3 bet from the SB). Conversely, with AA coming on the flop, he figures that it was unlikely that you had an ace and that his pocket pair is good. Your range really has villain crushed here and his re-raise and bet on the turn smell like either a big pocket pair or something like KQdd. I mean really you are only losing to a few hands that could have called preflop: 66, AJ, AQ and maybe A6hh because hearts is the only suited ace left and villain (if he is any good) would not have called with a non-suited ace. There are 6 combos of 66 (because there is 1 on the flop) 4 combos each of AJ and AQ and 1 combo of A6, which equals 15 combos. Even adding the remote possibility of AK only adds 4 combos to make 19. So, there are 19 hands that have you beat. There are 6 combinations each of KK, QQ, 10s and maybe even 9s in villains range. There are 16 combinations each of KQ, KJ, QJ, J10, of which, I would eliminate all but the ones suited in diamonds because of the re-raise on the flop. That is 4 combinations. I would also include Ax suited that it would be reasonable to call a 3 bet preflop and make this re-raise on the turn. Which from MP would be A2-A5 and A8-A9. Because there is only one ace, there is only 1 combo per hand, so 6 combos. There are also other suited combos such as K9, Q9, J9, 10 9 that could have reasonably called your 3 bet and then make the raise adding about 4 more combos. So, there are around 32 combos that you are crushing.
So, there are 18 BBs in the pot preflop and you raised 5 on the flop? That is under a 1/3 pot sized raise. I like villain raising here because he thinks you are making a blocker bet to draw. This reinforces to me that villain has a bigger pocket pair and that he's in the lead and by you just calling his raise, confirms it in his mind.
On the turn, there are 48 BBs in the pot and villain makes a half pot bet giving you 3:1 pot odds. If you think you are going to win more than 25% of the time. Here, you most likely are against 15-19 combos that you are losing to and winning against at least 32 so you are crushing 62% of his range and you only have to win 25% of the time. This was an easy call or check raise in my opinion.
Of course, if you have a read on the player and know that he ONLY bets the nuts. Then you probably made the right fold. Personally, I would have called and jammed the river if no diamond comes.
~ Strategywithout tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tacticswithout strategy is the noise before defeat ~ Sun Tzu
3 betting a tight 17/11 player with ATo when you are out of position seems a bit sketchy.
With your 3 bet pf, the stack to pot ratio is now small enough that you almost have to go with your AAA with a weakish kicker. In a single raised pot, I think you would have had more room to make better decisions.
3-betting ATo vs MP is too wide by default, and the villain seems to be really tight with his 17/11 stats, so it's even easier fold here.
Also the size OOP should be bigger, 8.5BB just give him great odds to continue IP. Given how strong his range is, you will just end up bloating the pot OOP with a dominated holding and almost 0 fold equity.
And postflop is a great illustration as to why you shouldn't 3-bet ATo in the first place. You flopped 3 of a kind, which is an incredibly rare and great result, but you folded after facing a small raise and a 1/2 pot turn bet. And it's hard to blame you for this decision - it's very likely here that you're beat, as he should have all the better Ax for sure, maybe 66 as well.
To sum up:
1. Small 3-bet vs tight range doesn't give you much FE preflop.
2. Postflop you're screwed unless you flop something like TTx, ATx, KQJ.
P.S. Also folding ATo on the turn means that you're folding a ton here, but this isn't really the point, as you shouldn't be there with this hand in the first place.
I told you the first hand you posted that you have made a small 3bet sizing versus a very Tight Player. Here is the same ideia. And a 3bet from the SB x a strong Tag from the MP should be at least AQs. Because like our friend said in a few posts behind, when you hit your Ace or Ten it doesn't change the situation.
If you make a Trips, which was the case it is a complicated situation when you get raised, because you are out of position versus an almost NIT Player.
So when you 3bet AT from the SB you are expecting a ton of Fold Equity or a miracle postflop:
So these are the flops good for you, in a specific spot like that:
AAT (very rare)
TTx (also rare)
QKx (normal but difficult to play oop)
QJx (normal but difficult to play oop)
TTT (almost never)
AAA (almost never forget it)
Now, if comes a raise from a normal player a TAG or whatever from the CO or from the BTN, now I would strongly advocate a 3bet for Bluff with ATo and ATs depending on the Villain. ATo if the Villain is to spewy and ATs if the Villain is more NIT.
Sometimes I have the feeling that 2 NLHE is not poker at all...but we try to adapt to the circumstances.
re: Poker & $2 NLHE 6-max: We always fold vs NIT aggression??
Originally Posted by teh_colonel_saigon
I 3bet pre because I thought he'd fold out a lot of his raising range... I thought the 2.5 raise looked weak as well.
You had a HUD running, so you should not "think he`d fold" but look at his fold to 3-bet stats. Realistically however someone opening this tight probably dont face many 3-bets, so the sample is likely to small to be usefull. And then you should assume, that someone opening tight fold less to 3-bets. His range will also be stronger, when he continue, because he dont open many weak hands to begin with.
Also a 2,5BB open raise is totally normal in todays online games, so especially when its made by a nit, its not a sign of a weak hand. So all in all this should just have been an easy fold preflop, and you need to reevaluate the thought process, which led you to enter this pot.
Postflop I think, you played it fine. I dont think, a nit goes crazy with pocket nines trying to get you off kings or queens. I also dont think, he always 4-bet AK and certainly not AQ and AJ. After all his 3-bet was only 2,8%, so we should expect his 4-bet to be even lower.