$2 NLHE 6-max: Should I check raise turn all in instead?

J

Jamalex

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Yatahay Network - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

I feel like the answer I most likely will get here will be "It's player dependent" which I feel is correct. But how about instead, what is your default move vs a brand new player at the table you have no info on in this spot, specifically on the turn?

BB: 102.5 BB
UTG: 153 BB
Hero (MP): 100 BB
CO: 132 BB
BTN: 136 BB
SB: 90.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T:diamond: J:diamond:

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN raises to 9 BB, SB calls 8.5 BB, fold, Hero calls 6 BB

Flop: (28 BB, 3 players) J:club: J:spade: 9:diamond:
SB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets 16 BB, fold, Hero calls 16 BB

Turn: (60 BB, 2 players) 7:spade:
Hero checks, BTN bets 31 BB, Hero calls 31 BB

River: (122 BB, 2 players) Q:spade:
Hero checks, BTN bets 80 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 44 BB and is all-in

RESULTS ARE WAY DOWN
































Hero shows T:diamond: J:diamond: (Three of a Kind, Jacks)
(Pre 50%, Flop 93%, Turn 95%)
BTN shows 8:spade: 8:club: (Two Pair, Jacks and Eights)
(Pre 50%, Flop 7%, Turn 5%)
Hero wins 199.5 BB
 
C

crazycitizen

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Check-calling all the way would be my default strategy too.
On this turn card I don't think I will be check-raising almost ever. Maybe vs a nit who will often check-back river holding AA KK QQ TT (if villain doesn't improve). As some nits are scared to barrel 3 streets on such a board, but will call your check-raise on the turn because they hate folding super premiums.
But 99% of the time I would do exactly as you did :)
Nice trap ^^
 
greatgame230

greatgame230

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the issue here is what you mentioned in your post "it depends on the player" in this case if you see the hand you publish without information there is nothing to discuss it was perfectly played but it shows that you had at least a good idea of your opponent's game I in particular without info would have checked / raised on the turn to see what the opponent was doing, I would not have risked a check / check in the River but from what you can see the hand was played perfectly
 
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fundiver199

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Preflop
JTs is a standard open from HJ, but when facing a 3-bet from BTN it is probably mostly a fold. You are going to be out of position postflop with a hand, that is dominated by his range. It is sort of close though, so with a read, that this player is a bit wild, ok maybe I call as well. SB cold calling the 3-bet should be a very strong hand, so this is also a bit concerning. But ok at 2NL it might just be a fish clicking buttons so whatever.

Flop
You flopped trips, which is of course amazingly lucky. Clear check-call. You hope, he has an overpair, and no point in scaring the little rabbit away.

Turn
I would check-jam now. There is only a third pot sized bet left, after he bet half pot, and people are not going to fold an overpair getting that kind of price. They are usually not going to bluff the river either, so if he has a hand like a spade draw or an OESD, you are just giving him a free card to draw out on you.

River
Not the greatest card, since hands like QQ or spades just got there, but given the price you still have a clear call.

Results
This guy was obviously just clicking buttons, and you managed to get his full stack, which is a great result. I dont think, he would have folded to a turn jam though. This kind of player will usually make a bad call, when he is getting a price and has any kind of hope like in this case a gutshot and of course his two outs for a boat.
 
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Jamalex

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Check-calling all the way would be my default strategy too.
On this turn card I don't think I will be check-raising almost ever. Maybe vs a nit who will often check-back river holding AA KK QQ TT (if villain doesn't improve). As some nits are scared to barrel 3 streets on such a board, but will call your check-raise on the turn because they hate folding super premiums.
But 99% of the time I would do exactly as you did :)
Nice trap ^^


Thank you again! I agree, the nits at this stake will almost never fold their over pairs but know at least not to bet them in some spots. Good to know you like just calling too:)
 
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Jamalex

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the issue here is what you mentioned in your post "it depends on the player" in this case if you see the hand you publish without information there is nothing to discuss it was perfectly played but it shows that you had at least a good idea of your opponent's game I in particular without info would have checked / raised on the turn to see what the opponent was doing, I would not have risked a check / check in the River but from what you can see the hand was played perfectly


Thank you for your reply! The backdoor flush draw was my main concern at this point and it even got there but the way I played and me getting roughly 4:1 on a call I was not folding to honestly any river at all. If he had his 1 combo of AJs or a boat there good for him. I agree I think there could be merit to checkraising the turn and the only value I would lose out on would be his bluffs but I would get it in good vs his backdoor flush draws and QQ that smashed this river rather then just pay them off on the river like I would of if he had them.
 
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Jamalex

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Preflop
JTs is a standard open from HJ, but when facing a 3-bet from BTN it is probably mostly a fold. You are going to be out of position postflop with a hand, that is dominated by his range. It is sort of close though, so with a read, that this player is a bit wild, ok maybe I call as well. SB cold calling the 3-bet should be a very strong hand, so this is also a bit concerning. But ok at 2NL it might just be a fish clicking buttons so whatever.

Flop
You flopped trips, which is of course amazingly lucky. Clear check-call. You hope, he has an overpair, and no point in scaring the little rabbit away.

Turn
I would check-jam now. There is only a third pot sized bet left, after he bet half pot, and people are not going to fold an overpair getting that kind of price. They are usually not going to bluff the river either, so if he has a hand like a spade draw or an OESD, you are just giving him a free card to draw out on you.

River
Not the greatest card, since hands like QQ or spades just got there, but given the price you still have a clear call.

Results
This guy was obviously just clicking buttons, and you managed to get his full stack, which is a great result. I dont think, he would have folded to a turn jam though. This kind of player will usually make a bad call, when he is getting a price and has any kind of hope like in this case a gutshot and of course his two outs for a boat.


I'm actually very happy about your response because this is practically the same thoughts I had when reviewing the hand myself.:)

Preflop (this may be because I'm used to microstakes) but when I see that cold call from the SB (who does not top off his stack back to 100bb so usually a fish clicking buttons) I'm even happier to call then when it's just me vs the 3-better oop. When I am getting 3.5:1 with a hand that has good potential and is easy to fold when I miss I usually call. This could be a mistake I do not know the answer to that but it is what I have been doing so far.

Flop was wonderful and an easy call for me, almost if not never gonna raise.

Turn I had the same exact thoughts. I decided to flat because I wanted to keep his bluffs in but if he does not have enough bluffs for the river then it's gonna suck when I have to pay off his backdoor spades and QQ when I could have just got it in on the turn.

River...honestly for the price no matter what card came I was calling 100% of the time. Q of spades was one of the worst rivers for me to see and I still called:D
 
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fundiver199

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Whenever calling a turn bet will commit you to the pot, meaning you are basically never folding any river, then its usually better to get it in, when you are out of position. The issue is, if you just call and check river, then you allow the opponent to decide, if the rest goes in, so you give him options. Alternatively you need to donk the river, but thats generally kind of weird and might sometimes induce even more folds. The busted draws are for sure folding to a river donk, whereas they might feel priced in to call it off on the turn. You got quite lucky here, that he jammed the river, which was very poorly played by him :)
 
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