$2 NLHE 6-max: Should I have raised this hand for value on the turn?

J

JackOscar

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Jul 16, 2020
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My plan in this hand after getting check-raised on the flop was pretty much just to call down non-club bets to the river and fold on clubs as well as to a river shove unless I improved to a full house. It feels pretty exploitable folding every hand in my range that isn't suited clubs to a river shove, but maybe I could keep sets in my calling range on river shoves as well.

Is this a decent strategy or should I have done something else like raising the turn to target his 1 diamond hand range since he has way more of those combos in his range than 2 suited ones? I'm leaning a bit more towards this after giving it some thought Feel free to give an answer for both micros and a more balanced strategy since I imagine they might be quite different here.

888Poker Snap, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

Bizzi (UTG): $0.51 (26 bb)
iceman9193 (MP): $2.18 (109 bb)
JackOscar95 (CO): $2.45 (123 bb)
ruax60 (BU): $2.00 (100 bb)
TheMacrea88 (SB): $1.98 (99 bb)
Ampl1tude (BB): $2.02 (101 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (JackOscar95) is CO with Q A
2 players fold, JackOscar95 (CO) raises to $0.05, 2 players fold, Ampl1tude (BB) calls $0.03

Flop: ($0.11) Q A 7 (2 players)
Ampl1tude (BB) checks, JackOscar95 (CO) bets $0.09, Ampl1tude (BB) raises to $0.32, JackOscar95 (CO) calls $0.23

Turn: ($0.75) 4 (2 players)
Ampl1tude (BB) bets $0.35, JackOscar95 (CO) calls $0.35

River: ($1.45) K (2 players)
Ampl1tude (BB) checks, JackOscar95 (CO) checks

Total pot: $1.45 (Rake: $0.09)

Showdown:
Ampl1tude (BB) shows T 8 (high card, Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 34%, Flop: 36%, Turn: 20%, River: 0%)

JackOscar95 (CO) shows Q A (two pair, Aces and Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 66%, Flop: 64%, Turn: 80%, River: 100%)

JackOscar95 (CO) wins $1.36
 
F

fundiver199

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I definitely dont think, you can raise this hand for value on the flop or the turn. He defended his big blind against a small raise from CO, and this mean, his range should have a very high density of suited cards. So he has a lot of flushes here, and against those you are pretty smoked with only 4 outs. So you need to do some pot control here and probably fold on a blank river, if he fire another big bet. You can have flushes also, so top two is certainly not the top of your range. Its not even near.

The interesting part is the river, when he check. Can you actually bet for value here and try to get called by a hand like A7 or AJ, which went crazy to charge 1 card flushdraws? I dont know. Its a pot sized bet left, so the situation is somewhat awkward, because either you have to bet full pot or a small size like 30% pot, which might induce a raise. I am not really sure, what is going on, so in real time I probably also just check back and take the showdown. And there is nothing wrong with this. You got 3 streets of value from a silly busted draw, that should probably just have check-folded on the flop.
 
J

JackOscar

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Jul 16, 2020
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I definitely dont think, you can raise this hand for value on the flop or the turn. He defended his big blind against a small raise from CO, and this mean, his range should have a very high density of suited cards. So he has a lot of flushes here, and against those you are pretty smoked with only 4 outs. So you need to do some pot control here and probably fold on a blank river, if he fire another big bet. You can have flushes also, so top two is certainly not the top of your range. Its not even near.

The interesting part is the river, when he check. Can you actually bet for value here and try to get called by a hand like A7 or AJ, which went crazy to charge 1 card flushdraws? I dont know. Its a pot sized bet left, so the situation is somewhat awkward, because either you have to bet full pot or a small size like 30% pot, which might induce a raise. I am not really sure, what is going on, so in real time I probably also just check back and take the showdown. And there is nothing wrong with this. You got 3 streets of value from a silly busted draw, that should probably just have check-folded on the flop.


Thank you, very nice analysis! Yeah the river is interesting, if he had something like KhQ or even a random A then I'm probably getting value from a small river bet like you said. If he's a very astute player that reckons we would fold to a blank river and shove then maybe he would actually take a check-raise line here though (maybe you could even check-raise as a bluff here against small river bets?) to extract more value. Pretty tricky spot I think actually, even if it wasn't at all the focal point of the hand when I posted it (but maybe it should have been). Would be interesting to see what others say.
 
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

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Dec 4, 2017
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834
My plan in this hand after getting check-raised on the flop was pretty much just to call down non-club bets to the river and fold on clubs as well as to a river shove unless I improved to a full house. It feels pretty exploitable folding every hand in my range that isn't suited clubs to a river shove, but maybe I could keep sets in my calling range on river shoves as well.

Is this a decent strategy or should I have done something else like raising the turn to target his 1 diamond hand range since he has way more of those combos in his range than 2 suited ones? I'm leaning a bit more towards this after giving it some thought Feel free to give an answer for both micros and a more balanced strategy since I imagine they might be quite different here.

888Poker Snap, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

Bizzi (UTG): $0.51 (26 bb)
iceman9193 (MP): $2.18 (109 bb)
JackOscar95 (CO): $2.45 (123 bb)
ruax60 (BU): $2.00 (100 bb)
TheMacrea88 (SB): $1.98 (99 bb)
Ampl1tude (BB): $2.02 (101 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (JackOscar95) is CO with Q A
2 players fold, JackOscar95 (CO) raises to $0.05, 2 players fold, Ampl1tude (BB) calls $0.03

Flop: ($0.11) Q A 7 (2 players)
Ampl1tude (BB) checks, JackOscar95 (CO) bets $0.09, Ampl1tude (BB) raises to $0.32, JackOscar95 (CO) calls $0.23

Turn: ($0.75) 4 (2 players)
Ampl1tude (BB) bets $0.35, JackOscar95 (CO) calls $0.35

River: ($1.45) K (2 players)
Ampl1tude (BB) checks, JackOscar95 (CO) checks

Total pot: $1.45 (Rake: $0.09)

Showdown:
Ampl1tude (BB) shows T 8 (high card, Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 34%, Flop: 36%, Turn: 20%, River: 0%)

JackOscar95 (CO) shows Q A (two pair, Aces and Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 66%, Flop: 64%, Turn: 80%, River: 100%)

JackOscar95 (CO) wins $1.36

Raise the turn for value isn't the best ideia in the world. We are blocking most significant combinations of Ax, and Qx, Villain never has AA, QQ, plus Villain should not be raising on the flop very often, because if BB/Villain had the nut flush, or any flush, it would be giving a very easy fold for hero, that has a lot of hands playing from the Cut-Off.

On the river the ideia is the same: if we bet or jam we give easy decisions for Villains, and we don't want that. It becomes pretty fair to call down a Hero push OTR when we (Villain) are nuts and fold when we are trashy.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
J

johnoman

Enthusiast
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May 1, 2020
Total posts
89
You did well to take it to showdown in my opinion.
Looking at the bet on the turn I would have folded.

Clearly this is a leak in my own game though.
 
U

UkoChebuko

Rock Star
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Oct 10, 2018
Total posts
381
I will do just the same, you have a bluff catcher + outs for full house. Against the flush, set...Also you beat some dumb hand, pair + flush draw, two pairs. Easy game. Call, call...Maybe with info you will have some other options. Raise OTF (3bet) is just dumb for me. Sorry...Can be good against someone, but I just never will do that. OTT vs some players , you can raise. Shove...Some crazy aggro fishes. If you expect call with draw.
BTW why you check-back OTR? Easy shove...You have fear about some hands, but they just never will be there...
 
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