$2 NLHE 6-max: Should I fold 8k on the turn?

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serna

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https://replayer.runitup.com/hands/845970d274 on the turn would it be better to check – call or to bet small 40% just to give ourselves good odds ( cause if we check and he bets big then we`re not getting odds required to call with flushdraws) however, we dont have much fold equity and I think by betting I protect my equity what do you think about it?
 
PaxMundi

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Im barreling the turn here even though the J reduces your turn fold equity i still think you get enough folds.And it also allows you to choose the price of your draw rather than check calling and allowing villain control of the pot.You can still get some better hands to fold as well Ax K9 perhaps some pp's
 
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serna

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Im barreling the turn here even though the J reduces your turn fold equity i still think you get enough folds.And it also allows you to choose the price of your draw rather than check calling and allowing villain control of the pot.You can still get some better hands to fold as well Ax K9 perhaps some pp's
If we wanna raise on the turn do you agree with my size and the reasoms I mentioned?
 
TheBigFinn

TheBigFinn

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I am good with playing the K8 pre blind versus blind, if Hero folds to a 3-bet. I am also good with the CB into the flush draw. On the turn the real question is, "If Hero bets, what does he do to a 3-bet." Answer Hero folds. Better to see if Villain bets the turn.

As played, Hero calls $0.19 to win $0.49 with 9 flush draw outs and 3 possible K outs.~24% As played Hero gains another $0.36 on the river winning $0.85 versus losing $0.57 the other 3 times Hero misses. This works when villain bets, but if Villain just checks back or bets small, it doesn't.

The percentage move is to fold to the turn bet to tight or an unknown player, and call an action player.
 
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maxi_j

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On flop my plan is to B/B/B . But J is worst card so X/F (maybe X/C vs smal bet). Im counting only 9 out (FD) because will bet with Trips+ (and some blufs) River raise smaller: 2.5 x-3x times. if lets say drops 2c i would raise 2-2.5x
 
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fundiver199

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I dont think, it matter to much, if we bet or check the turn. By checking we give ourselfes a chance for a free card, if he check back a marginal made hand, and we dont risk getting raised by trips and blown off our equity. By betting we can determine our own price (around half pot) and get him to fold some marginal made hands, we are still behind to.

I dont like the check-raise all in on the river though. He should really only be calling you with a full house, the nut flush and maybe occationally a worse flush. But with the Q and J on the board, that are not that many worse flushes, they are T high at best, and they should probably fold to a jam on this board.

So unless he is a calling station, you win nothing more, when you have the best hand, but you lose your whole stack, when you dont. You need at least 4`s full to get it in here. The texture of the board matter here, because JT and QJ are hands, that are absolutly in both players ranges, so full houses are pretty common.
 
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MungBeans

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Im barreling the turn here even though the J reduces your turn fold equity i still think you get enough folds.

How does the J reduce fold equity? Are you saying because they hit trips they're less likely to fold? If so, would top pair really fold if the J didn't come. Thank you.
 
PaxMundi

PaxMundi

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How does the J reduce fold equity? Are you saying because they hit trips they're less likely to fold? If so, would top pair really fold if the J didn't come. Thank you.

Your not really ever trying to get top pair to fold to a second barrel but it's just harder to get any pp to fold and Tx isnt folding now. If the turn comes say Q or A your fold equity obviously goes through the roof but on that paired J. Most of villains range that called the flop will now call the turn.
 
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MungBeans

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Your not really ever trying to get top pair to fold to a second barrel but it's just harder to get any pp to fold and Tx isnt folding now. If the turn comes say Q or A your fold equity obviously goes through the roof but on that paired J. Most of villains range that called the flop will now call the turn.



Are you saying that the opponent will be less likely to put you on a J once the second one hits because there are fewer chances of you holding a J?
 
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fundiver199

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Are you saying that the opponent will be less likely to put you on a J once the second one hits because there are fewer chances of you holding a J?

That is part of it yes. But more broadly its a card, that did not help Hero, if Hero was bluffing. If Hero was drawing, he is still drawing, and if Hero had A high, he still have A high. And Hero value range also became a lot narrower, because not only does Hero now have less JX, he is probably also not betting again with an overpair. So Hero has fewer hands, that want to bet for value, but still a lot of hands, that would like to bluff, so its very easy for Hero to end up bluffing to much.


Most likely a 2NL player is not thinking on that level, but he will instinctively understand, that if his TX was good on the flop, its still good now. And many recreational players love to police the tables. They almost take it personal and tend to go like "YOU are not going to bluff ME, I AM CALLING YOU DOWN WITH MY T9!!!"
 
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On the turn the check isnt too bad but i do think a bet would be better. and i would bet about 55%-75% pot. When the J pairs it becomes less likely for them to have a J and you can easily represent a J and use that as a bluff. You usually don want to bet smaller on a draw and bigger with a made hand. Keep the bet polarized and bet bigger whether you have the J and if youre going for a bluff with a draw. if he calls the turn anyway you can check back every river and let him bluff. If you bet turn and river he usually would only call down with better.
 
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chiefmax

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Just read some other replies and it seems people are worried about them having the J so they want you to check. This is aother reason you DO want to bet the turn. If they have the J they will 3-Bet and you can fold. you figure out exactly where you are in the hand and you avoid traps. If he had the J chances are he has something like QJ and you couldve fallen into a very bad situation because you never gave yourself an oppurtunity to find out where you are in this hand. I also seen some people say to check the turn to give yourself a free card. You only had 24% chance to win so if you check/call the turn your odds arent that great. By betting the turn you have 24% to hit plus you win alot more often by them folding so you increase the chances of taking down the pot.
 
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gustav197poker

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For me the call on the turn is correct, since on the flop you made a big cbet (75% of the pot)
If you had played check on the flop, it might make more sense to bet on the turn, to protect your rank.
Anyway, it helps to know how to play BB, to induce the sizes of bets that you usually make for certain situations.
On the river I think there are several options to make considering the texture of the board, and the play you did (all in) is an allowed option.
It is true the risks of full house, but as I say, it is necessary to have all the available information you have about BB to make a decision as accurate as possible.
Greetings.
 
PaxMundi

PaxMundi

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Are you saying that the opponent will be less likely to put you on a J once the second one hits because there are fewer chances of you holding a J?


Yep it makes all villains Tx much more likely to be the best hand now.
 
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