$2 NLHE 6-max: Should I fold QQ preflop against nit ?

P

Papier24

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Silver Level
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Feb 13, 2017
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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 16/11/3

No Limit Hold'em $0,01/$0,02
PokerStars
5 players
Formatiert mit pokerpilot.com: Der Poker-HUD für Mac und Windows

Stacks:
UTG - UTG (
$2,55)
CO - CO (
$2,10)
BTN - BTN (
$1,97)
SB - SB (
$2,18)
BB - Hero (
$2,07)

Preflop: (
$0,03, 5 players) Hero is BB with Q♣ Q♦
1 fold, CO raises to $0,06, BTN calls $0,06, SB calls $0,05, Hero raises to $0,30, CO raises to $0,62, 2 folds, Hero calls $0,32

Flop:
7♥ 7♦ J♥ ($1,36, 2 players - Hero: $1,45, CO: $1,48)
Hero checks,
CO bets $0,52, Hero calls $0,52

Turn:
3♣ ($2,40, 2 players - Hero: $0,93, CO: $0,96)
Hero checks,
CO bets $0,96 (all-in), Hero calls $0,93 (all-in), Uncalled bet of $0,03 returned to CO

River:
8♥ ($4,26, 2 players, 1 all-in - Hero: $0,00, CO: $0,03)

Total Pot:
$4,26

How could I have played this hand better ?
Villain Stats : VPIP (16) PFR (11) Agg (60%) 3bet (0)
I have playe 70 hands with him.

My main question is how I should have reacted preflop to his 4bet ? I personally considered all 3 different options (shoving, folding, calling). I believed when I shove here I pretty much only get called by AA,KK. That's why I mainly thought about calling or folding.
Of course he's really tight but he's giving me a really good price and I still have the third best hand in NLHE. His bet size kinda looked like AA or KK that don't want to scare away weaker holdings. But does he really only have AA or KK here ?

Postflop I felt obligated to call him down since the SPR is just way too low to fold this hand after no overcard showed up.


 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 16/11/3

No Limit Hold'em $0,01/$0,02
PokerStars
5 players
Formatiert mit pokerpilot.com: Der Poker-HUD für Mac und Windows

Stacks:
UTG - UTG (
$2,55)
CO - CO (
$2,10)
BTN - BTN (
$1,97)
SB - SB (
$2,18)
BB - Hero (
$2,07)

Preflop: (
$0,03, 5 players) Hero is BB with Q♣ Q♦
1 fold, CO raises to $0,06, BTN calls $0,06, SB calls $0,05, Hero raises to $0,30, CO raises to $0,62, 2 folds, Hero calls $0,32

Flop:
7♥ 7♦ J♥ ($1,36, 2 players - Hero: $1,45, CO: $1,48)
Hero checks,
CO bets $0,52, Hero calls $0,52

Turn:
3♣ ($2,40, 2 players - Hero: $0,93, CO: $0,96)
Hero checks,
CO bets $0,96 (all-in), Hero calls $0,93 (all-in), Uncalled bet of $0,03 returned to CO

River:
8♥ ($4,26, 2 players, 1 all-in - Hero: $0,00, CO: $0,03)

Total Pot:
$4,26

How could I have played this hand better ?
Villain Stats : VPIP (16) PFR (11) Agg (60%) 3bet (0)
I have playe 70 hands with him.

My main question is how I should have reacted preflop to his 4bet ? I personally considered all 3 different options (shoving, folding, calling). I believed when I shove here I pretty much only get called by AA,KK. That's why I mainly thought about calling or folding.
Of course he's really tight but he's giving me a really good price and I still have the third best hand in NLHE. His bet size kinda looked like AA or KK that don't want to scare away weaker holdings. But does he really only have AA or KK here ?

Postflop I felt obligated to call him down since the SPR is just way too low to fold this hand after no overcard showed up.


First, we must consider your read here. Is it accurate? If your read is spot on, then we have some things to consider here.

The effective stack size isn't big enough to setmine the CO. So, if he does in fact have KK/AA, we are not getting proper odds to call and flop a set.

This is $2 NL, Vs are going to be passive in general. 4b should set off alarm bells here. The only thing we really beat is if he is over-playing a smaller pair (I think this is pretty optimistic to think he would), or if he has AK. I personally feel he wouldn't do this with either considering your read.

So part of poker is trusting your reads, and going with them, even if we can't verify them. You may never know if you are correct. I would probably fold here pre. The worst thing happens, and we flop over pair to the board. Reverse implied odds at work here.



If I had the read you said you did, I would fold pre.
 
P

Papier24

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First, we must consider your read here. Is it accurate? If your read is spot on, then we have some things to consider here.

The effective stack size isn't big enough to setmine the CO. So, if he does in fact have KK/AA, we are not getting proper odds to call and flop a set.

This is $2 NL, Vs are going to be passive in general. 4b should set off alarm bells here. The only thing we really beat is if he is over-playing a smaller pair (I think this is pretty optimistic to think he would), or if he has AK. I personally feel he wouldn't do this with either considering your read.

So part of poker is trusting your reads, and going with them, even if we can't verify them. You may never know if you are correct. I would probably fold here pre. The worst thing happens, and we flop over pair to the board. Reverse implied odds at work here.



If I had the read you said you did, I would fold pre.
To be honest in my mind I exactly put him on AA or KK. And I know that I don't have enough equity to justify a call with QQ against KK+, even against this small raise. This guy never even 3betted once for over 70 hands played and now he's 4betting me after I 3betted into 3 people. Mostly when somebody 4bets me this small on 2NL they just have AA.

The problem is that I don't want to trust my reads 100%. I think it's actually quite simple, if he does this often enough with AK I probably have to call. I just didn't want to exclude AK or some weird smaller pocket pairs from his range even though I believed he has KK+.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Yeah, this is probably a fold to the 4-bet, if you've never seen him 3-bet in 70 hands.
 
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braveslice

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Also the idea of low spr do not apply fully to nits, also the line c-c-fold which is quite 'funny' is very valid in micros.
 
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MattJM68

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I've been playing a lot of this format the past week and have been fairly successful. I'm going to go against the other comments and say it's a shove preflop. 70 hands is not enough to say for certain that this guy only has AA KK here. If you had these stats over say 150+ hands then it's a snap fold pre. But over 70 hands he could have easily not had JJ+, therefore looking tight.

However if we assume he does this with AK as well then he has 16 combos, compared to 6 AA and KK, then with potentially the odd AQs it's a shove.
Alternatively you could fold on the flop when he continues as you'd expect him to with AA KK whereas he may shut down when AK misses.

Overall, I wouldn't stress about this too much, focus on playing a solid game and you will beat this game type no problem.

Good luck
 
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braveslice

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only has AA KK here.
Some potential pitfalls in your comments. Not saying they are so, but it’s good to give them some though.
a) 3bet and 4bet are very different things. It’s fairly typical for aggressive player to have 10% 3bet range but super value heavy 4bet range.
b) Having only value 3bet range, or value 4bet range is not how decent regs play 6max. They have also bluff range. That means hero BU vs CO can 3bet forex maple hands like A3 suited, KT of suit, etc.. So if you meet a 8% 3bet range, it’s not 8% from the top. This is also true with agros, they 3bet many times with randoms if they read you weak.
 
Robochick

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I think you answered your own question at the beginning. My thoughts would be to fold pre-flop. But how many times have I been guilty of not letting QQ go?
 
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wacosteel

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I would call and play the flop carefully.
 
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Gildog89

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To be honest in my mind I exactly put him on AA or KK. And I know that I don't have enough equity to justify a call with QQ against KK+, even against this small raise. This guy never even 3betted once for over 70 hands played and now he's 4betting me after I 3betted into 3 people. Mostly when somebody 4bets me this small on 2NL they just have AA.

The problem is that I don't want to trust my reads 100%. I think it's actually quite simple, if he does this often enough with AK I probably have to call. I just didn't want to exclude AK or some weird smaller pocket pairs from his range even though I believed he has KK+.
I think you should go with your read and fold to the 4-bet here. If your using the possibility of AK in villains range to justify a call, you are flipping vs. the bottom of his range, and crushed by the rest.
 
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Anar Veliyev

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i think Hero should fold postflop just to see maybe he gets trips on it
But preflop is also good to avoid risks
 
Luvart

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I don't play 6-max first of all.

Now, your preflop call in highly questionable being OOP. Correctly you say that shoving here you will only get called by AA, KK. 4bets at these stakes, and especially 2x/2,2x/2,5x 4bets, are super monsters that tell you "Come on, I have AA/KK, PLEASEEE call me with your JJ or 10-10....!!".

Of course, it's all about the reads you have.
 
WabiSabi

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Id jam pre with all the dead money already in the pot,70 hands just isn't enough to be making any great assumptions on 4bet ranges.It's very easy to look this nitty over such a small sample it doesn't really mean to much.
 
Last edited:
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Yoda_Priest_X_Napo

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First of all the squeeze is on the small sizing you should go for 0.40$ish. 2nd, play Poker as it must be played and shove your hand, 70 hands are not enough to make this assumption over his Range, AK would like to do this play to protect from the players behind blocking your AA and KK and AK.I have seen the click it back IP with ATo from a guy with 150 hands with 0% 3bet.Reads are good but most times people overdo it and what it is supposed to work as your weapon works against you, and not only that it hurts your View of the game and your approach.
 
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