$2 NLHE 6-max: Set on the river, Please help!!!

[Casey55]

pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 4 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: $1.15 (58 bb)
BU: $4.54 (227 bb)
SB: $3.58 (179 bb)
BB (Hero): $2.14 (107 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB with J♥ J♦
UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, SB raises to $0.08, Hero calls $0.06, UTG calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.24) 4♥ 3♥ Q♦ (3 players)
SB bets $0.12, Hero calls $0.12, UTG folds

Turn: ($0.48) 7♥ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($0.48) J♠ (2 players)
SB bets $0.46, Hero raises to $1.38, SB raises to $2.30, Hero calls $0.56 (all-in)

I don't even know, this hand made my head spin. at 2nl sometimes I find myself leveling my thoughts into thinking these opponents will play top pair strong kicker like this and I can shove and be called by worse. Do you think this is a mistake and what advice would you give for facing 2nl opponents and these spots, and what are your thoughts about villain's range given his line of play? thanks for all feedback!!!

I figure we could 3-bet pre, that was probrably a mistake to just call. I have a hard time remembering all the player types without a hud I should probrably post the hands directly after playing so its fresh in my memory but I am exhausted after a long session. Any recommended HUD's for a cheap price? I think both opponents were pretty high vpiping

can we bet our hand for value and protection on the turn?

 

[Hermus]

The hand would be a million times easier if you would've 3-bet pre. Especially important with hands that don't play particularly well multiway (like JJ) with a limper left to act.

With the heart blocker, betting the turn for value and protection seems decent. JJ is still in a good spot against SB open and c-betting range. Definitely going for a bet/fold line on the turn though, since a check/raise from villain increases the likelihood of a flush or queen considerably.

I don't think very many people check a made flush with the betting lead on the turn so the set feels good enough to stack on the river. I would've preferred just shoving over the top though since you're pot committed anyway. I think your assumptions about villain playing top pair and overpairs like this is very reasonable and I think you get called often enough for this to be a profitable play, factoring in losing to the occasional slowplayed flush.

I bought all my poker software with winnings from playing at the microstakes. PT4 and HM3 are both popular options that are in my opinion decently priced. I've tried both and they basically do the same thing so it's just a matter of taste. There are cheaper alternatives on the market, but I don't really have experience with those.If you plan to keep playing at pokerstars a HUD is for sure at the top of software you want to invest in. The alternative is transferring your roll to a site where HUDs are not allowed.

 

[liuouhgkres]

Preflop: must 3bet, your biggest mistake.
Flop: fine.
Turn: in these spots you could and should bet small for protection/thin value. You are folding out A-K highs and also some gutshots I imagine and you get called by smaller pairs and flush draws, so you have both value and protection.
River: this spot is super villain dependent. There are guys that bet pot only with nuts, against those you should just call. By default though you should raise all in. Remember, when you bet for value and not folding to reraise you should go all in.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
This is a prime spot for 3-betting, getting the limper to fold, and then play a heads-up pot with SB in position. Rather than letting the limper come along, and now you are monkey in the middle without initiative, a capped range and a hand, which will most often flop second pair, as in fact it did.

Flop
Standard call as played, although with a guy left to act behind you folding would not be totally crazy either.

Turn
Standard check behind. Your hand is definitely not strong enough to bet for value or protection.

River
Before raising we always need to consider, what we are trying to get value from. There are a few combos of worse sets, he can have, but two pair is very unlikely on this board texture, especially when you strongly block the only reasonable one, which is QJ. So basically for this raise to be profitable, you need him to take this line with one pair hands like AA, KK, AQ, KQ, AND then also be willing to call a raise.

Now some bad players will, and then maybe the raise is fine. But against slightly better opponents I think, this is just a call. My main concern here is, that I dont think, a reasonable player would take this sizing on the river with one pair. They might bet, but it would typically be something smaller like half pot and not close to full pot. So I see this sizing as very polarized, and when our opponent is very polarized, we should typically just call rather than raise with strong but not nut hands.

Also if you are going to raise, there is no point in leaving yourself 56c behind. Just go all in, so you dont end up in this awkward situation, where he 3-bet jam, and you are getting a sick price, so I understand, why you called it off. But even without you telling us, we all know, he has a flush, because realistically no other hand ever takes this line on the river.

 

[Casey55]

Preflop
This is a prime spot for 3-betting, getting the limper to fold, and then play a heads-up pot with SB in position. Rather than letting the limper come along, and now you are monkey in the middle without initiative, a capped range and a hand, which will most often flop second pair, as in fact it did.

Flop
Standard call as played, although with a guy left to act behind you folding would not be totally crazy either.

Turn
Standard check behind. Your hand is definitely not strong enough to bet for value or protection.

River
Before raising we always need to consider, what we are trying to get value from. There are a few combos of worse sets, he can have, but two pair is very unlikely on this board texture, especially when you strongly block the only reasonable one, which is QJ. So basically for this raise to be profitable, you need him to take this line with one pair hands like AA, KK, AQ, KQ, AND then also be willing to call a raise.

Now some bad players will, and then maybe the raise is fine. But against slightly better opponents I think, this is just a call. My main concern here is, that I dont think, a reasonable player would take this sizing on the river with one pair. They might bet, but it would typically be something smaller like half pot and not close to full pot. So I see this sizing as very polarized, and when our opponent is very polarized, we should typically just call rather than raise with strong but not nut hands.

Also if you are going to raise, there is no point in leaving yourself 56c behind. Just go all in, so you dont end up in this awkward situation, where he 3-bet jam, and you are getting a sick price, so I understand, why you called it off. But even without you telling us, we all know, he has a flush, because realistically no other hand ever takes this line on the river.

True, the villain was playing alot of pots so I wasnt sure if I could give him only nut range. Ive seen some mind boggling stuff at these stakes. I am ahead of all two pairs and sets, I thought he might have a hand like KQ,QJ or something. Its tough because some players play in a manner where they’re raising ranges are but hands and some other players do it with worse than the nuts. I’n finding difficulty trying to accurately gauge when they have a legitimate range compared to when they’re ranges are not super strong because 2nl is crazy . Its really tough for me to figure out sometimes it can be a guessing game at times because of how some bad these players can be.


why does villain stop betting turn if he has a good made hand ? this confuses me.

On the river I believe I left a bit behind for a psychological, sometimes players feel more inclined to call when they know they will still have some stack remaining behind, If you shove them all in they may just fold. I'm sure this tactic is something that is not needed but I have been experimenting with it every once in a while.

 

[fundiver199]

why does villain stop betting turn if he has a good made hand ? this confuses me.

If you bet a flushdraw on the flop and then make your flush on the turn, it can often be a little difficult to get 2 more streets of value by going bet, bet, bet. So especially with the nut flush it can actually make sense to check the turn to underrepresent your hand. I do that some times as well. What I dont do however is to then bet almost full pot on the river. When the opponent takes that line, it looks more like, he was hoping to get a check-raise in on the turn, and when that plan failed, he tried to make up for lost value on the river.

On the river I believe I left a bit behind for a psychological, sometimes players feel more inclined to call when they know they will still have some stack remaining behind, If you shove them all in they may just fold. I'm sure this tactic is something that is not needed but I have been experimenting with it every once in a while.

That is a valid point, but I think, its more of a thing in low stakes live games than at 2NL online. Are there really that many people, who buy in for 2 bucks, and when they are gone, that was their budget for the night? Its been a while, since I grinded cash games, but based on my memory this was more common at 10NL than 2NL. At 10NL its also more common to see people buy in for odd amounts like 6,74$, which is then typically, whats left in their poker account, meaning that now they are ready to gamble it up.

But if you have noticed a dynamic in your game, where a lot of people dont reload after getting felted, then maybe this idea have some validity. Its just worth noting, that when you are not going to fold to a raise, you create a situation, where you still lose the max, when you are beat, but you dont win the max, when you get called by worse. And for me personally that overrides getting called wider. But if you think, he might just call with some of his lower flushes, then the EV of your line goes up.

 

[Casey55]

If you bet a flushdraw on the flop and then make your flush on the turn, it can often be a little difficult to get 2 more streets of value by going bet, bet, bet. So especially with the nut flush it can actually make sense to check the turn to underrepresent your hand. I do that some times as well. What I dont do however is to then bet almost full pot on the river. When the opponent takes that line, it looks more like, he was hoping to get a check-raise in on the turn, and when that plan failed, he tried to make up for lost value on the river.



That is a valid point, but I think, its more of a thing in low stakes live games than at 2NL online. Are there really that many people, who buy in for 2 bucks, and when they are gone, that was their budget for the night? Its been a while, since I grinded cash games, but based on my memory this was more common at 10NL than 2NL. At 10NL its also more common to see people buy in for odd amounts like 6,74$, which is then typically, whats left in their poker account, meaning that now they are ready to gamble it up.

But if you have noticed a dynamic in your game, where a lot of people dont reload after getting felted, then maybe this idea have some validity. Its just worth noting, that when you are not going to fold to a raise, you create a situation, where you still lose the max, when you are beat, but you dont win the max, when you get called by worse. And for me personally that overrides getting called wider. But if you think, he might just call with some of his lower flushes, then the EV of your line goes up.

yes thank you, this all makes sense now. Villain did have a flush and I see what your saying about checking the turn, I will try to keep this in mind when I get checked to again like this on a flush completer.