$2 NLHE 6-max: Is ok to call 4bet for set value?

C

c0rnBr34d

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 6, 2019
Total posts
991
Chips
1
V only has 100 BB. So you do not have odds to set mine vs his 23.5 BB four bet. You are not strictly set mining though if he has AK in his range. If his range is QQ+, AK you're about 36.5%. Your ranging was off here though. Once you add AQo to his range we go from about 36.5% to 42.5%. With the dead money in the pot and our 8 BB three bet if we know he has AQo in his range I think the call is correct. Pretty sick that this guy is putting in a cold 4 bet with AQo here. Do you have a HUD? Would love to see his stats.
 
Q

quant1986

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Total posts
599
Awards
1
Chips
2
It is not profitable to set mine with 4bet pot with eff stack 100, I think you can call/fold depending on villain stats, surprised villain called your raise all in on the flop
 
LevySystem

LevySystem

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Total posts
315
Chips
0
You dont Call a 4bet for setvalue there. You call it for pairvalue vs that specific Villain. As others allready said you don't get the implied odds in a 4bet spot 100bb deep, 200bb for sure. Now If you know that a specific V cold4bets hands like that I like you're play. Alltough I would fold vs unknown players there. Also I don't like you're jam on the flop. You're all in by the turn anyway and want to keep his bluffs in. As there is no real straight or flush draw out there I'd call flop and call/jam river there to maximise our EV.
 
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

Sleeping with the Dark Lady of the Sith
Loyaler
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Total posts
2,517
Awards
3
BR
Chips
331
a luck flip

Hello there freddydr87 good morning how are you? Thanks a lot for your question and for posting your hand.
In the given spot, I elect to call down with 99-QQ sometimes when it comes a raisor from EP, specially if the guy is a NIT, to balance my calling-3betting range. I believe the frequency is 50% call and 50% 3bet in a situation like that.
We 3bet when we see somebody opening more than 15% UTG and 20% MP and we call when somebody is opening 15% or less than that.
A curious fact is that the SB decided to Squeeze an EP raisor with AQo. (dominated a lot of times). A weak move like that it is a clear tell that the SB player is a recreational. When CO calls this 4bet and put up a shove in the Flop it will have a lot of JJ, TT and a few 22 in its range, plus JTs, AA and KK and QQ that could decided to trap preflop and AQ.
Given Hero/CO line in the flop I don't see many bluffs or weaker hands such as 77, 88, 99.

4-Bet Range/5Bet

Before calling down a 4bet In Position you gotta ask yourself if you could 5bet the same hand. Is it 99, TT, JJ and QQ in a 5bet range? If they are, how are they going to play postflop? Good or bad?
I agree with the general population here, Luepso, c0rnBr34d and Quant1986, that we like to call a 4bet when we are deep stacked and villain also is deep stacked. We cannot simply call a 4bet trying to "setmine" or else we are burning chips.
Your postflop line is fine, it seems that you had information upon the Villain so no problem shoving. (Villain called a shove in the flop with a gutter plus two overcards..).
When we are calling a 4bet and 5betting TT, JJ and QQ we are putting ourselves in delicate situations. These hands will not play so good versus a 4bet range. So, in the best case scenario when we elect to put all the chips in the middle with TT, JJ and QQ we would be in a luck flip coin. (best case scenario).

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
freddydr87

freddydr87

League Champion
Bronze Level
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Total posts
4,186
Awards
32
Chips
358
V only has 100 BB. So you do not have odds to set mine vs his 23.5 BB four bet. You are not strictly set mining though if he has AK in his range. If his range is QQ+, AK you're about 36.5%. Your ranging was off here though. Once you add AQo to his range we go from about 36.5% to 42.5%. With the dead money in the pot and our 8 BB three bet if we know he has AQo in his range I think the call is correct. Pretty sick that this guy is putting in a cold 4 bet with AQo here. Do you have a HUD? Would love to see his stats.
Sorry mate,i dont have a hud,i only play by the notes i put.
 
freddydr87

freddydr87

League Champion
Bronze Level
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Total posts
4,186
Awards
32
Chips
358
V only has 100 BB. So you do not have odds to set mine vs his 23.5 BB four bet. You are not strictly set mining though if he has AK in his range. If his range is QQ+, AK you're about 36.5%. Your ranging was off here though. Once you add AQo to his range we go from about 36.5% to 42.5%. With the dead money in the pot and our 8 BB three bet if we know he has AQo in his range I think the call is correct. Pretty sick that this guy is putting in a cold 4 bet with AQo here. Do you have a HUD? Would love to see his stats.

Hello there freddydr87 good morning how are you? Thanks a lot for your question and for posting your hand.
In the given spot, I elect to call down with 99-QQ sometimes when it comes a raisor from EP, specially if the guy is a NIT, to balance my calling-3betting range. I believe the frequency is 50% call and 50% 3bet in a situation like that.
We 3bet when we see somebody opening more than 15% UTG and 20% MP and we call when somebody is opening 15% or less than that.
A curious fact is that the SB decided to Squeeze an EP raisor with AQo. (dominated a lot of times). A weak move like that it is a clear tell that the SB player is a recreational. When CO calls this 4bet and put up a shove in the Flop it will have a lot of JJ, TT and a few 22 in its range, plus JTs, AA and KK and QQ that could decided to trap preflop and AQ.
Given Hero/CO line in the flop I don't see many bluffs or weaker hands such as 77, 88, 99.

4-Bet Range/5Bet

Before calling down a 4bet In Position you gotta ask yourself if you could 5bet the same hand. Is it 99, TT, JJ and QQ in a 5bet range? If they are, how are they going to play postflop? Good or bad?
I agree with the general population here, Luepso, c0rnBr34d and Quant1986, that we like to call a 4bet when we are deep stacked and villain also is deep stacked. We cannot simply call a 4bet trying to "setmine" or else we are burning chips.
Your postflop line is fine, it seems that you had information upon the Villain so no problem shoving. (Villain called a shove in the flop with a gutter plus two overcards..).
When we are calling a 4bet and 5betting TT, JJ and QQ we are putting ourselves in delicate situations. These hands will not play so good versus a 4bet range. So, in the best case scenario when we elect to put all the chips in the middle with TT, JJ and QQ we would be in a luck flip coin. (best case scenario).

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
Thanks for yours explainations,they are very healpfull.
 
liuouhgkres

liuouhgkres

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Total posts
920
Awards
2
KH
Chips
33
You are not calling for setmining, you are calling because you have enough equity. JJ is standard call, although if villain is tight you definitely can fold.

Bigger mistake is your flop jam. Why are you so excited to get it in so quickly? You are blocking top pair, if villain has set or overpair he will hand you his stack anyway. By jamming you are forcing villain to fold all his bluffs. You are giving ton of money here by raising.
 
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

Sleeping with the Dark Lady of the Sith
Loyaler
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Total posts
2,517
Awards
3
BR
Chips
331
Thanks for yours explainations,they are very healpfull.

Hello there freddydr87, good morning! I am glad my poor comments helped you!
If you have more questions, doubts, problems, do not hesitate to ask!

Have a nice day

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
Top