$2 NLHE 6-max: Multiway pot with weak pair.

[Casey55]

pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: $2.00 (100 bb)
MP: $1.34 (67 bb)
CO: $3.08 (154 bb)
BU (Hero): $2.21 (111 bb)
SB: $2.01 (101 bb)
BB: $1.70 (85 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BTN with 3♦ 4♦
UTG raises to $0.06, MP calls $0.06, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.06, 2 players fold

Flop: ($0.21) 3♠ 8♥ A♦ (3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.21) 5♥ (3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets $0.10, UTG folds, MP calls $0.10

River: ($0.41) 9♦ (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $0.27, MP calls $0.27

After the flop and turn go check/check I decide to bet half pot to try and get someone off a weaker pair that is beating me and deny FD equity.... when I get called I think my opponent is on a FD or some weaker pairs like 8x,5x or some weaker PP's. On the river I think my 2/3 bet can make alot of these hands fold . Thoughts?

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
This is a very loose call especially against an UTG open, even at 6-max. This kind of call is almost certainly losing you money long term, so I would advice stop doing it and simply fold. You could mix in a 3-bet from time to time, but I prefer to use some higher suited connectors.

Flop
The preflop raiser is first to act, so when they both check to you, they have both shown quite a bit of weakness. Its quite possible, you have the best hand, but between them they can have as many as 12 outs to a better pair, and for that reason I prefer to make a small bet like 35-40% pot mainly for protection. Simply try to take it down right now, even though you have connected. If you get action, you are not happy about it, but you still have 5 outs to a very well disguised two pair or trips.

Turn
As played I am on board with betting now for the same reasons, I gave on the flop.

River
I would check back and take a free showdown. You still beat busted draws, so you have some showdown value, and then you should not bluff.

 

[feisas7991]

Nothing to analyze there. You dumping money on every street.
Preflop fold
Flop if u get there block bet and try to take it down right now, since giving a free card basically means with your specific hand that you are not intending to win this hand.
And river is basically charity event, doubt they can fold at these stakes 9x 77+ after such a line

Hope it did not sound to harsh and brief break down helped. Good luck!

 

[Casey55]

Nothing to analyze there. You dumping money on every street.
Preflop fold
Flop if u get there block bet and try to take it down right now, since giving a free card basically means with your specific hand that you are not intending to win this hand.
And river is basically charity event, doubt they can fold at these stakes 9x 77+ after such a line

Hope it did not sound to harsh and brief break down helped. Good luck!

How is it a charity event? I dont understand what your basing your assumption on that players at 2nl cant fold at these stakes. There are plenty of all types of players, loose-passive,tight,maniacs etc. The 9 should not help villains range too often so then if he range is all weak pairs 2/3 bet has to work roughly 39% of the time. Does anyone not think it works that often?

What can we be representing? 42s? 53s for two pair? And pocket 99? Maybe even A5 or A9?

 

[Lucky_Shark]

Bad call preflop. If the opponents know how bad you are playing then they can bluffcatch 5x

 

[Casey55]

Bad call preflop. If the opponents know how bad you are playing then they can bluffcatch 5x

The middle opponent was playing loose and this 1 hand does not tell you how I was playing, this was an out of line call from my standard type of plays and I am exploring bluffing lately I thought this hand was a decent candidate since it can be losing a-lot of the time by the river and villains range seems very marginal by the river

 

[Lucky_Shark]

The middle opponent was playing loose and this 1 hand does not tell you how I was playing, this was an out of line call from my standard type of plays and I am exploring bluffing lately I thought this hand was a decent candidate since it can be losing a-lot of the time by the river and villains range seems very marginal by the river

This is not true. Bad hand and bad game.

 

[Casey55]

This is not true. Bad hand and bad game.

If you dont have anything constructive and/or technical to post please move on. Im reporting your posts

 

[fundiver199]

The 9 should not help villains range too often so then if he range is all weak pairs 2/3 bet has to work roughly 39% of the time. Does anyone not think it works that often?

But his range is not all weak pairs. He also have busted draws like for instance 64 or any combination of hearts, that dont contain an A, 9 or 3. So even if he fold 39% of the time, that does not mean, your bet "worked", because you would also have won at showdown against those hands by checking back. I dont mind bluffing in this situation, but you picked the wrong hand.

 

[Lucky_Shark]

If you dont have anything constructive and/or technical to post please move on. Im reporting your posts

You created the post I replied. What is the problem? Or did you need to be praised?

 

[Casey55]

But his range is not all weak pairs. He also have busted draws like for instance 64 or any combination of hearts, that dont contain an A, 9 or 3. So even if he fold 39% of the time, that does not mean, your bet "worked", because you would also have won at showdown against those hands by checking back. I dont mind bluffing in this situation, but you picked the wrong hand.

Thanks for your knowledge, appreciate your comments and technical advice

 

[Tammy]

If you dont have anything constructive and/or technical to post please move on. Im reporting your posts

There is nothing offensive in the posts that you reported. Please make sure you are only using the report function for serious breaches of our rules, such as inflammatory, personal attacks. Opinions on how a hand was played is not a personal attack.

 

[feisas7991]

How is it a charity event? I dont understand what your basing your assumption on that players at 2nl cant fold at these stakes. There are plenty of all types of players, loose-passive,tight,maniacs etc. The 9 should not help villains range too often so then if he range is all weak pairs 2/3 bet has to work roughly 39% of the time. Does anyone not think it works that often?

What can we be representing? 42s? 53s for two pair? And pocket 99? Maybe even A5 or A9?

I dont understand why you post a hand if you are so defensive about it.
The hands you mentioned we could rep we dont have in our range. Of course unless we assume hero is absolute whale at nl2, which we dont.
Hope this helps and Good Luck!

If you really want to improve your game post more hands and play super tight in nl2, until you start figuring what they could have. Use about half of hands charts suggest to play pre flop
Good Luck once again!

 

[Casey55]

I dont understand why you post a hand if you are so defensive about it.
The hands you mentioned we could rep we dont have in our range. Of course unless we assume hero is absolute whale at nl2, which we dont.
Hope this helps and Good Luck!

If you really want to improve your game post more hands and play super tight in nl2, until you start figuring what they could have. Use about half of hands charts suggest to play pre flop
Good Luck once again!

why do you think the hands I mentioned could not be in our range? I don't see anything wrong with having A5,A9,99.

 

[feisas7991]

why do you think the hands I mentioned could not be in our range? I don't see anything wrong with having A5,A9,99.

A5 and A9 are not winning as a flat call pre-flop. You would face too many difficult situations and often your kicker doesnt play if pot gets big
99 sure
Hope this helps and Good Luck!

 

[fundiver199]

A5 and A9 are not winning as a flat call pre-flop. You would face too many difficult situations and often your kicker doesnt play if pot gets big

I agree with that. But I think, the much more important point is, that a lot of players at 2NL are level 1 thinkers. They are not yet at a point, where they even think about, what we represent, or at least not on a deeper level like putting us on a range. So if we assume that, we just end up leveling ourselfes.

And even if they are good hand readers, then Heros line with the delayed turn bet dont represent much other than 55 or 99 for value. AX would probably have bet the flop when checked to, and in many cases also 3-bet preflop. So if I am Heros opponents in this hand, I am not putting him on a ton of AX. At the same time a heartdraw developed on the turn, which would be very tempting for Hero to use as a semibluff, and when that heartdraw missed, I would do a lot of hero calling on the river.

So Hero is taking a line here, which good players will not give a lot of credit to, and in top of that he had showdown value, and he is playing 2NL, where the majority of his opponents are notoriously bad at folding anything other than busted draws on the river. And for all those reasons I think, this is a bad river bet.

 

[easy play]

Preflop - Loose call
Post flop - Good check back
Turn - Betting makes sense after everyone checks as we have a hand that needs protection and we can avoid River probe from others
River - Not sure if half pot bet accomplishes much. If hero wants better hands to fold, then 75 - 80% pot size bet makes sense. Alternatively check down and hope we win at showdown.

 

[Casey55]

I agree with that. But I think, the much more important point is, that a lot of players at 2NL are level 1 thinkers. They are not yet at a point, where they even think about, what we represent, or at least not on a deeper level like putting us on a range. So if we assume that, we just end up leveling ourselfes.

And even if they are good hand readers, then Heros line with the delayed turn bet dont represent much other than 55 or 99 for value. AX would probably have bet the flop when checked to, and in many cases also 3-bet preflop. So if I am Heros opponents in this hand, I am not putting him on a ton of AX. At the same time a heartdraw developed on the turn, which would be very tempting for Hero to use as a semibluff, and when that heartdraw missed, I would do a lot of hero calling on the river.

So Hero is taking a line here, which good players will not give a lot of credit to, and in top of that he had showdown value, and he is playing 2NL, where the majority of his opponents are notoriously bad at folding anything other than busted draws on the river. And for all those reasons I think, this is a bad river bet.

Sound logic, You make good points and I am learning and improving each day because of posts like this .

 

[Recreationalplayer]

Its always difficult to realise equity with low cards even when you hit the board..
and it gets even more difficult multi-way..

 

[feisas7991]

I agree with that. But I think, the much more important point is, that a lot of players at 2NL are level 1 thinkers. They are not yet at a point, where they even think about, what we represent, or at least not on a deeper level like putting us on a range. So if we assume that, we just end up leveling ourselfes.

And even if they are good hand readers, then Heros line with the delayed turn bet dont represent much other than 55 or 99 for value. AX would probably have bet the flop when checked to, and in many cases also 3-bet preflop. So if I am Heros opponents in this hand, I am not putting him on a ton of AX. At the same time a heartdraw developed on the turn, which would be very tempting for Hero to use as a semibluff, and when that heartdraw missed, I would do a lot of hero calling on the river.

So Hero is taking a line here, which good players will not give a lot of credit to, and in top of that he had showdown value, and he is playing 2NL, where the majority of his opponents are notoriously bad at folding anything other than busted draws on the river. And for all those reasons I think, this is a bad river bet.

We dont bluff any flush draws at nl2 in multi way, not against ep ranges anyway.
We just shouldnt try to make fold pocket pairs at nl2 imho.
You just take your equity and try to realize your equity for free instead of blasting into donks.


Now about yolo calls vs hero in villain's shoes, when fd missed. I would assume its not the best line either, given i assume they just dont bluff enough and are generally way more call happy than bluffing you out of the pot happy.

Hope this makes sense and Good Luck!

 

[feisas7991]

Preflop - Loose call
Post flop - Good check back
Turn - Betting makes sense after everyone checks as we have a hand that needs protection and we can avoid River probe from others
River - Not sure if half pot bet accomplishes much. If hero wants better hands to fold, then 75 - 80% pot size bet makes sense. Alternatively check down and hope we win at showdown.

I assume we do not have show down value, since we would exclusively put them on broadways.
If we had a better pair i could consider block betting turn as you suggest, but not with bear bottom pair.
Hope this helps and Good Luck