$2 NLHE 6-max: Loose Maniac On The Button 3-bets

[Jamalex]

Yatahay Network - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

He had showdown some very loose 3-bets earlier in the session.

UTG: 115.5 BB
Hero (CO): 174.5 BB
BTN: 118 BB
SB: 117.5 BB
BB: 58 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8:spade: 7:spade:

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 6 BB

Flop: (19.5 BB, 2 players) 6:diamond: 7:diamond: 9:spade:
Hero checks, BTN bets 14.5 BB, Hero calls 14.5 BB

Turn: (48.5 BB, 2 players) 3:club:
Hero checks, BTN bets 36 BB, Hero raises to 151 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 58.5 BB and is all-in

River: (237.5 BB, 2 players) 4:heart:

Hero shows 8:spade: 7:spade: (One Pair, Sevens)
(Pre 34%, Flop 75%, Turn 84%)
BTN shows A:heart: 8:club: (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 66%, Flop 25%, Turn 16%)
Hero wins 226 BB

 

[GreenDaddy1]

I'd say that might be technically correct with a good read on a maniac, but is potentially a high variance play on the turn. If he just can't fold to anything you're maybe ahead often enough to be +ev. If you're going to do this make sure the times he turns up with a better hand don't tilt you.

Maniacs can induce tilt easily enough, you decide they are easy money and get too loose and agro, and sometimes actually tightening up a bit vs them is not a bad thing instead. They tend to show up with crazy stuff if you get carried away assuming your low pairs or top pair bad kicker hands are good often against them. They can be good, are probably more than 50% of the time.... but prepare to ride the wave of variance.

Earlier this week I had a nightmare against someone playing 90/80. Lost 3 buy ins and he left before I could win them back. Lost with a worse full house, with some other decent hand to quads... but this is what happens, maniacs go on hot runs but will usually lose it all if you can just be patient and find the right places to get it all in.

 

[Tachkum]

Yatahay Network - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

He had showdown some very loose 3-bets earlier in the session.

UTG: 115.5 BB
Hero (CO): 174.5 BB
BTN: 118 BB
SB: 117.5 BB
BB: 58 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8♠ 7♠

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 6 BB

Flop: (19.5 BB, 2 players) 6♦ 7♦ 9♠
Hero checks, BTN bets 14.5 BB, Hero calls 14.5 BB

Turn: (48.5 BB, 2 players) 3♣
Hero checks, BTN bets 36 BB, Hero raises to 151 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 58.5 BB and is all-in

River: (237.5 BB, 2 players) 4♥

Hero shows 8♠ 7♠ (One Pair, Sevens)
(Pre 34%, Flop 75%, Turn 84%)
BTN shows A♥ 8♣ (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 66%, Flop 25%, Turn 16%)
Hero wins 226 BB

You should pray for such players, let them be more. I love this type of player

 

[Vallet]

You easily recognized the maniac. But a cash game is not a tournament. Why risk the entire stack in one hand?

 

[Jamalex]

You easily recognized the maniac. But a cash game is not a tournament. Why risk the entire stack in one hand?

For sure I get what you mean by that, but would you give up your equity here and fold to the turn bet from a maniac here who can show up with anything? I can't really call here so if I'm gonna run into spots like this and just fold, I should probably simply fold to his 3bet with hands like this preflop because I'll never get a good price to chase any draws I flop anyways vs a maniac. But using them against the maniac, I'll get folds/bad calls with worse hands from him + I have outs from my combo draw when he has a hand and is ahead.

Just curious on what you would have done?

 

[fundiver199]

Against a maniac I dont mind the way, this hand was played. We could fold preflop to his 3-bet and wait for a better hand. But once the decision was made to call, and we see this fairly perfect runout for our hand, we just have to go with it in my opinion.

We could check-call the turn obviously, which would leave around a half pot bet behind for the river. But I am not loving that, because then we put ourselfes in a situation, where we probably have to do a lot of bluff catching on the river, and its just not a fun spot. For me its kind of tilting, if an overcard like a J hits the river, he move all in, I make the hero call, and then he flip over a hand like KJ or QJ, that got there on the end.

So I perfer to get it in on the turn and put the decision on him. For sure all his better hands are going to call, so we are not bluffing here. But even when we are behind, we are often going to have as many as 15 outs, so its not exactly the end of the world. Yes its high variance, as some said, but guys this is 2NL. Its 2 bucks to reload, so it really should not matter to anyone to suck up a bit of variance in these games.

 

[Vallet]

For sure I get what you mean by that, but would you give up your equity here and fold to the turn bet from a maniac here who can show up with anything? I can't really call here so if I'm gonna run into spots like this and just fold, I should probably simply fold to his 3bet with hands like this preflop because I'll never get a good price to chase any draws I flop anyways vs a maniac. But using them against the maniac, I'll get folds/bad calls with worse hands from him + I have outs from my combo draw when he has a hand and is ahead.

Just curious on what you would have done?

The thing is, I lost to people like your opponent in full tilt poker many years ago. I lost time after time, because I thought that if my hand had the best odds of 75-85%, then I could double the stack. The opponent called and got his card on the river so often that I was forced to give up poker. I returned to the game a couple of years ago. Despite a good bankroll for me, I continue to play 2 NLHE and always leave the table in a good mood.
As for the hand.
If I am sure that the maniac is after me and will re-raise, then I don't see the point in raising. We need to see the flop as cheap as possible. A limp-call will reduce the pot on the preflop. You hit the flop, but remember that 5, T diamond are not your outs, because they give the villain a flush, which he can chase to the river.
I would probably check-fold on the turn, but with the information and reading of the opponent as in your case, I would check-call and try to get to the showdown as cheap as possible.
Whether the villain would have put all in as a bluff on the river or not is unknown. Many maniacs are disappointed in the river and then everything ends check-check. You make more profit than I do. But I get fewer bad beats on the river because I always reserve the decision to fold.:santaclau

 

[John A]

You made a play based on a read... there's not much people can tell you about your hand honestly because it's so read dependent. Calling doesn't make sense if your read is correct, it's best to get all his draws in on the turn. If this isn't a maniac the turn is a close call / fold.