$2 NLHE 6-max: Loose 3 bet call in position, nice flop

GreenDaddy1

GreenDaddy1

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SB is only 17 hands but this is the first hand they have played. BB 25/17/2 over 239 hands, fold to 3 Bet 5 out of 8 times.

I don't always open 89s from UTG, avoid doing so if there is a lot of loose action with short stacks. No such issue here, table looked tight and all fully stacked.

Solid sized 3 Bet from the SB that is called by the BB. I have position on both villains and getting 25% odds for the call. At the time I think I thought the price was decent and the implied odds good. Ranges fairly clear too which would help post flop. Off the table later it looks like I had about 25% equity here vs my best estimate at the ranges I might be up against. Is it optimistic to suggest this is a break even call over the long run? Obviously a dream flop and run out.

Rest of the hand is what it is. I am not slow playing a non nut flush here, think the jam gets paid with a bunch of different hands that SB holds, especially given we're down here at 2nl.



Pacific Poker - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 100 BB
Hero (UTG): 104 BB
CO: 105 BB
BTN: 172.5 BB
SB: 143 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8 9

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, SB raises to 12 BB, BB calls 11 BB, Hero calls 9 BB

Flop: (36 BB, 3 players) J 7 2
SB bets 31.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 92 BB and is all-in, SB calls 60.5 BB

Turn: (220 BB, 2 players) 3

River: (220 BB, 2 players) T

Hero shows 8 9 (Straight Flush, Jack High)
(Pre 22%, Flop 97%, Turn 100%)
SB shows K K (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 78%, Flop 3%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins 206.5 BB
 
L

lanelosee100

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This seem like a losing play in my opinion. This is the best possible outcome to a 3 bet call that will force you to bluff wrecklessly or chase while being forced to call large cbets and if you are chasingQ high straight then the AK that always 3 bets here will stack you. Great hand post
 
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EarnDAStack

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The call preflop is probably losing quite a bit, BB isn't really supposed to flat SB's 3-Bet here but I don't think you'd be doing very well against his range as I would make up mine with lots of hands that dominate 89s like 88s 99s suited combos above 89s and A8s and A9s.

Flop is just beautiful for you, his 80% lead is pretty awful tho, he can already be beat and doesn't have the K of hearts for a redraw. You can probably call and see a turn card to keep all of his bluffs in but it's pretty rough to see a heart come, overall it's not really a spot I would be spending a lot of time on
 
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Great Big Pair

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I think you played this just great. I would have done this entirely as you did.

Not only were you close to priced in by calling the 3bet, you have decent implied odds with 2 fully stacked opponents.

That flop was an absolute shove. You're gonna get callers that have a single heart and a pair etc. and you also have a gutshot straight flush here on the odd chance you get called by a better flush.

I like your pre-flop actions, assuming you are going to fold the vast majority of flops. You had the implied odds.
 
M

mktpppr

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P: loose open, I let 98s go from UTG.

As played (open), easy fold vs 4x 3bet multi-way. Flatting pre for bloated multi-way 3bet pots is a good way to burn money: we're playing hit-or-miss postflop.

F: as played, I guess a jam is better than a call, but we're not happy.

SB is repping a better flush, or he's value-owning himself, and doing so multi-way.

I'm not sure what to do, as I would never find myself in this spot.

Reverse implied odds is a thing.
 
Last edited:
GreenDaddy1

GreenDaddy1

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P: loose open, I let 98s go from UTG.

As played (open), easy fold vs 4x 3bet multi-way. Flatting pre for bloated multi-way 3bet pots is a good way to burn money: we're playing hit-or-miss postflop.

F: as played, I guess a jam is better than a call, but we're not happy.

SB is repping a better flush, or he's value-owning himself, and doing so multi-way.

I'm not sure what to do, as I would never find myself in this spot.

Reverse implied odds is a thing.




I knew there'd be a response, or a few of them, along these lines. Good point on reverse implied odds too.

The key thing here for me is does the 3 bet call has any merit whatsoever based on a) the pot odds and b) the equity we hold against perceived ranges pre flop, ie are we making enough money post flop when the flop and run out is not as kind as this one, which let's face it is most of them! I think the answer is almost certainly no, which is why I posted the hand. There are probably 4 or 5 outcomes on the flop:
a) we miss or dont connect strong enough someone bets we fold (majority of the time)
b) we hit but go on to lose a big pot (rarely)
c) we hit and go on to win a big pot (also rarely)
d) checks to us and use position to take pot down on flop or turn with a bluff
e) our bluff gets called or raised and we've just been setting money on fire :p

I'm sure I recollect Splitsuit doing some math on spots similar to this with some worksheets, I might try to look it up on youtube.

By rights if we find spots that are even 51/49 to our favour we should be taking them if we're playing the long game, right? I suppose I was fishing with this post as to whether this sort of implied odds situation might be one of those spots.


Btw I think I can argue the open here is fine vs a weak 2NL field, depending on the circumstances. It is outside my standard open from UTG which is basically 66+, Suited Broadway, AJ, KQ. When the table is very nitty though (fast fold tables for example at times) the players are over folding pre flop and also so fit or fold post flop that a C bet takes the pot down even out of position. You have to be careful you're not getting loose vs calling stations or a bunch of short stackers, but otherwise adding in suited connectors, suited aces and even low pocket pairs take down pots without much resistance even from UTG, and you have the bonus of excellent implied odds when you do smash the board and someone is unable to let go of a big pocket pair. Or let's face it any pair at 2NL, yesterday someone stacked themselves vs me with top pair 2 kicker on a paired board when I had trips, happy days! :D
 
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zuker

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fold preflop 89s from UTG
as played fold preflop after 3bet
 
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