€2 NLHE 6-max: Jamming, flatting or folding with a drawing hand against big raise on flop

J

JackOscar

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Total posts
47
€2 NLHE 6-max: Jamming, flatting or folding with a drawing hand against big raise on flop

Did I make the correct move here on the flop jamming with my draw to a straight flush? Calling I felt was better than folding since I have so much equity and implied odds, but I ended up shoving since I figured I might get some folds out of hands like AK since I easily have 88 and 99 in my range calling from the SB.

I'm also wondering if there is more reason to flat because it might allow the third player to call with an Ax type of hand.

Would folding here also have been an okay play since the raiser has hands like Ax of diamonds in his range, or would that be playing too scared since I also block 2 diamonds?

888Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

migu3l30 (UTG): $1.57 (79 bb)
Tolstov02 (MP): $2.00 (100 bb)
OmgAKs (CO): $2.41 (121 bb)
Paisting (BU): $2.07 (104 bb)
JackOscar95 (SB): $2.89 (145 bb)
dommy2705 (BB): $2.87 (144 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (JackOscar95) is SB with 6 5
1 fold, Tolstov02 (MP) raises to $0.06, 2 players fold, JackOscar95 (SB) calls $0.05, dommy2705 (BB) calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.18) 9 A 8 (3 players)
JackOscar95 (SB) checks, dommy2705 (BB) bets $0.18, Tolstov02 (MP) raises to $0.56, JackOscar95 (SB) raises to $2.83 (all-in), dommy2705 (BB) folds, Tolstov02 (MP) calls $1.38 (all-in)

Turn: ($4.24) 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($4.24) 4 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $4.24 (Rake: $0.26)

Showdown:
JackOscar95 (SB) shows 6 5 (a flush, Nine high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 23%, Flop: 34%, Turn: 2%, River: 0%)

Tolstov02 (MP) shows A A (a full house, Aces full of Eights)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 77%, Flop: 66%, Turn: 98%, River: 100%)

Tolstov02 (MP) wins $3.98
 
K

kozong

Legend
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Total posts
1,442
Awards
8
9 high flush draw is not good enough, especially after the pot bet & reraise that follows
im folding (yes we might get a straight flush, but there are plenty of diamonds is out there w/ better odds than us)
 
J

JackOscar

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Total posts
47
9 high flush draw is not good enough, especially after the pot bet & reraise that follows
im folding (yes we might get a straight flush, but there are plenty of diamonds is out there w/ better odds than us)


Do you not think we have much fold equity in this spot? What range would you put the raiser on here, you wouldn't include AK (apart from diamonds)?
 
JimmyBrizzy

JimmyBrizzy

Visionary
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Total posts
916
Awards
1
I don’t think you’re getting enough folds to ever make this profitable, especially with the flop reraise from the preflop raiser. He will have the ace a lot of the time and at 2nl they aren’t folding.
 
K

kozong

Legend
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Total posts
1,442
Awards
8
Do you not think we have much fold equity in this spot? What range would you put the raiser on here, you wouldn't include AK (apart from diamonds)?
we might have fold eq vs a weak bet, but against a pot bet reraise - it feels more like a protection raise that wont fold & ready to get it in
 
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

Visionary
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Total posts
839
Awards
1
Did I make the correct move here on the flop jamming with my draw to a straight flush? Calling I felt was better than folding since I have so much equity and implied odds, but I ended up shoving since I figured I might get some folds out of hands like AK since I easily have 88 and 99 in my range calling from the SB.

I'm also wondering if there is more reason to flat because it might allow the third player to call with an Ax type of hand.

Would folding here also have been an okay play since the raiser has hands like Ax of diamonds in his range, or would that be playing too scared since I also block 2 diamonds?

888Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

migu3l30 (UTG): $1.57 (79 bb)
Tolstov02 (MP): $2.00 (100 bb)
OmgAKs (CO): $2.41 (121 bb)
Paisting (BU): $2.07 (104 bb)
JackOscar95 (SB): $2.89 (145 bb)
dommy2705 (BB): $2.87 (144 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (JackOscar95) is SB with 6 5
1 fold, Tolstov02 (MP) raises to $0.06, 2 players fold, JackOscar95 (SB) calls $0.05, dommy2705 (BB) calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.18) 9 A 8 (3 players)
JackOscar95 (SB) checks, dommy2705 (BB) bets $0.18, Tolstov02 (MP) raises to $0.56, JackOscar95 (SB) raises to $2.83 (all-in), dommy2705 (BB) folds, Tolstov02 (MP) calls $1.38 (all-in)

Turn: ($4.24) 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($4.24) 4 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $4.24 (Rake: $0.26)

Showdown:
JackOscar95 (SB) shows 6 5 (a flush, Nine high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 23%, Flop: 34%, Turn: 2%, River: 0%)

Tolstov02 (MP) shows A A (a full house, Aces full of Eights)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 77%, Flop: 66%, Turn: 98%, River: 100%)

Tolstov02 (MP) wins $3.98

Nope, it wasn't correct jamming on the flop. Calling preflop from the SB with suited connectos is a very good way of burning chips. Besides, if you raising a flush draw with 6 high, you are bluffing basically every two cards you get.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
11,143
Awards
1
Preflop
I dont do much cold calling out of small blind seat, at least not against anything above a mini-raise. So for me this would be a fold most of the time, and maybe sometimes a bluff 3-bet, if for instance original raiser was opening to wide and folding to much to 3-bets.

Flop
This is a situation, which looks better, than it actually is. Sure you have a draw to a straight flush, but this is only one out, and your other 11 outs are not clean. If you improve on a offsuit 7, you might just set yourself up to get owned by someone with JT, because you are drawing too the ass end of the straight. This is something, you generally want to avoid.

And as for your 8 flush outs, these might also be dead, if someone has for instance AX of diamonds, which is totally possible. Finally if someone liked their hand enough to raise over a pot sized donk bet on the flop, then I dont think, they are ever going to fold. So I dont think, you have any fold equity here, especially considering, that MP already has nearly 30% of his stack in the middle.

So while it sucks to flop a big draw and then have to fold it on the flop, I dont think, there is any way, you can profitably continue. If you jam, you are only setting yourself up to get it in behind against a hand like the one, he had. And if you call, you are only going to see one card, and then you will have to fold to his turn jam, if you did not improve. The fact, that BB is still in the pot, does not make it any better, because it give a risk, that you are against a combination of a better flushdraw and a made hand, in which case you are down to 4 straight outs.
 
Vallet

Vallet

Legend
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Total posts
1,851
Awards
13
Even if you had called, you wouldn't have thrown your flush on the river. Perhaps the cards would have been discarded on the turn. However, you were so involved in your draw that you didn't notice the actions of other players. The opponents made huge bets on the flop. This indicates very serious hands. One of them had a set of aces, and you made a push with 34% against it. No words.
 
S

Sidetracked

Legend
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Total posts
1,294
Awards
2
One of the trickiest things in Holdem is how to play draws out of position.

You had 34% equity on that flop vs his exact hand. I would feel better having more than 40% equity to merit getting it in on the flop.
 
Z

zuker

Rock Star
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Total posts
255
In this hand all is bad: cold call from SB (worst position after flop) with marginal hand. And push after bet and original raiser`s raise.
Just try to play straigth - no bluffs, no overmind.
 
Starting Hands - Poker Hand Nicknames Rankings - Poker Hands Folding in Poker
Top