$2 NLHE 6-max: Isolating a weak limper from SB

GreenDaddy1

GreenDaddy1

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Probably the worst hand I make this move with. Will often get a fold immediately or following a C bet on many flops given the weak average limping range at 2nl, unless villain is a massive calling station.

I do open this most of the time if it folds to me also as a steal, prefer to take closer to a BTN open range from the SB, rather than something akin to a CO range as some suggest for micros.

So anyway, I C bet with some equity. Expecting villain has something that is beating me or at least a draw when they call.

The turn completes my straight and all combos of T8 have me dead but I am looking good besides that. Definitely in the range of hands that called on the flop, but I think that is rare enough to bet for value here, I'm ahead of loads of limped hands that called the flop and aren't folding that turn, particularly given the number of pairs, two pair, sets and straight/flush draws that are likely to call.

I have no inclination to call that raise at all and I'm never folding, I snap shove all in.

Probably the biggest point to argue here is isolating the limper in the first place here? Fire away :)





Pacific Poker - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 90 BB
BTN: 105.5 BB
Hero (SB): 100 BB
BB: 200.5 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 6:heart: 8:heart:

CO calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, CO calls 3 BB

Flop: (9 BB, 2 players) J:diamond: 7:club: 5:diamond:
Hero bets 6 BB, CO calls 6 BB

Turn: (21 BB, 2 players) 9:club:
Hero bets 16.5 BB, CO raises to 33 BB, Hero raises to 90 BB and is all-in, CO calls 47 BB and is all-in

River: (181 BB, 2 players) A:diamond:

CO shows 7:heart: 5:spade: (Two Pair, Sevens and Fives)
(Pre 36%, Flop 68%, Turn 9%)
Hero shows 6:heart: 8:heart: (Straight, Nine High)
(Pre 64%, Flop 32%, Turn 91%)
Hero wins 170 BB
 
F

fundiver199

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Preflop
I dont think, a 4BB raise is getting a limper to fold anything, when he have position on you. You could solve that by going bigger, but really this hand is perfect to just complete and see a cheap flop. I would be much more on board with isolating, if you were on BTN, so that you had position on everyone postflop.

Flop
Totally on board with C-betting with an OESD, and your sizing is perfect as well.

Turn
Gin card for you, and I would also stack it off, when he raise you. If he has T8, he got you, but I think, he can be raising a lot of two pair or sets as well, and there are also two flushdraws, he could be raising as a semibluff.
 
GreenDaddy1

GreenDaddy1

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I find the larger SPRs awkward when I complete, how do you navigate things post flop in order to get max value when you hit?
 
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fundiver199

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I find the larger SPRs awkward when I complete, how do you navigate things post flop in order to get max value when you hit?

Its not easy to say in a few words. But being out of position is just such a disadvantage, that I prefer to keep the pot small, when I have a marginal hand like this. By completing you invest 0,5BB to win a pot of 3BB, so you only need to win it 1 out of 6 times. If on the other hand you make it 4BB, now you invested 3,5BB, and if both players call, the pot is 12BB, so you need to win it almost 1 out of 3 times. And what are you going to do, when you miss the flop? There is pretty much no other play than simply giving up. To be fair raising will sometimes get big blind out of the pot, which is good, but I just think, a hand like this play better as a complete. I would rather raise hands like AJ or KQ, which will dominate some of their calling range.
 
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c0rnBr34d

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Shouldn't we be determining if we check our option pre on reads? Against this type of V with a huge VPIP and not a ton of aggression I think it's pretty close but seeing as we were actually ahead pre and got V to call as light as 75o raising cant be much of a mistake with any hand that has some strength against a wide range. If V had a much lower VPIP and was sticky or aggressive post flop (for one example) then I definitely like checking to keep the pot small and piling in money later if we hit or calling down against uber-aggression.
 
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c0rnBr34d

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sorry misread, just saw we were in SB instead of BB so we can't check our option but the same logic applies to a different extent. Now we have to factor limps on BB aggression as well. I think it's pretty bad to limp then call a properly sized squeeze OOP so if BB has much PFR at all then I don't like a limp here (fold). If BB is passive then we are back to my original post on whether to limp or raise.
 
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fundiver199

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but seeing as we were actually ahead pre and got V to call as light as 75o raising cant be much of a mistake with any hand that has some strength against a wide range.


Even if Villain call with any random hand, 86s is a slight underdog, so its hardly a raise for value. It also bloats the pot, when we are out of position. It does deny some equity to BB though and gains us the initiative, so there are some merits to raising. I think, the worst preflop play is clearly to fold. That would just be to tight, when we have a decent suited and connected hand against a limper.
 
John A

John A

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Correct, the only thing to say about this hand is whether you should ISO raise out of position, and the primary time that would be correct is if you have a reg in the BB that you don't want in the pot, and you want to get HU's vs. the fish.

So raising pre here isn't horrible. You can probably go to 3-3.5 and achieve the same goal though.
 
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