$2 NLHE 6-max: Full House, how do you play this hand?

[Bluebottle88]

pokerstars Zoom Hand #208680938073: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2020/01/30 15:34:35 WET [2020/01/30 10:34:35 ET]
Table 'Halley' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: unasuke24 ($2.30 in chips)
Seat 2: chappers888 ($3.45 in chips)
Seat 3: B'BlackCloak ($2 in chips)
Seat 4: Johndurrr ($3.85 in chips)
Seat 5: kimek111 ($1.07 in chips)
Seat 6: vovodepoker52 ($1.04 in chips)
chappers888: posts small blind $0.01
B'BlackCloak: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chappers888 [Qh Jc]
Johndurrr: raises $0.04 to $0.06
kimek111: folds
vovodepoker52: calls $0.06
unasuke24: folds
chappers888: calls $0.05
B'BlackCloak: folds
*** FLOP *** [8c 8s Js]
chappers888: bets $0.08
Johndurrr: calls $0.08
vovodepoker52: raises $0.28 to $0.36
chappers888: calls $0.28
Johndurrr: calls $0.28
*** TURN *** [8c 8s Js] 8♥
chappers888: bets $0.80
Johndurrr: folds
vovodepoker52: calls $0.62 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.18) returned to chappers888
*** RIVER *** [8c 8s Js 8h] 2♥
*** SHOW DOWN ***
chappers888: shows [Qh Jc] (a full house, Eights full of Jacks)
vovodepoker52: shows [Qs Qd] (a full house, Eights full of Queens)
vovodepoker52 collected $2.43 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $2.52 | Rake $0.09
Board [8c 8s Js 8h 2h]
Seat 1: unasuke24 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: chappers888 (small blind) showed [Qh Jc] and lost with a full house, Eights full of Jacks
Seat 3: B'BlackCloak (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Johndurrr folded on the Turn
Seat 5: kimek111 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: vovodepoker52 showed [Qs Qd] and won ($2.43) with a full house, Eights full of Queens

 

[ibetmyho]

Firstly I wouldn't call QJo from the SB especially against early position openers as you will frequently find yourself in spots such as this , where you're completely dominated.
I also then wouldn't bet out for two reasons.

1) The the early position player opening range is vastly stronger to ours. The person can have all the premium hands which we can't, as we would be raising preflop with then.

2) When we lead into the preflop raiser we will often only get called better hands and fold out worst ones.

So you should check to the raiser here and check call the cbet.
The turn is an awful card for you as boat up. If the villain keeps betting strong you have to think you're chopping at best.

Honestly you played this hand as badly as you could but it's only at 2nl and just have to keep learning from your mistakes.

 

[TheDude6622]

Betting out on the flop AND turn are bad here. Especially with it being an 8. You're basically saying I have an 8 or J, and the odds says J. As they raised pre-flop from early position, they're hand is more polarized to either AJ, AQ, AK, or QQ or higher. Getting called on the flop should send off signals of you being beat in this spot.

 

[Sidetracked]

The easiest way to avoid this situation is to fold your weak unsuited broadways preflop.

 

[Aballinamion]

Hi there Bluebottle88, thank you for sharing your hand with the CardsChat community!
Let me repeat what others have said before, but allow me to input the respective ranges.
When UTG opens at a 6-Max Table, we expect a strong range, something til 21% at maximum, if the player is on the laggy side from EP.


UTG standard opening range:

22+, A9s+, A5s-A2s, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, AJo+ (14.93%)

However, many players are not going to open all the combos, because if it was true, there was going to be 1326 hands in 15% UTG opening range.
For example, there are 6 combos of Pocket Pairs right? From 22-77, UTG would be opening all the 6 combos? Many players will open 2 combos of 22-77 from UTG from time to time, not always!
If we narrow the combos x position, we see that 15% for a TAG is actually 7% because it is not opening 100% of its combos, except QQ+ AQs+, of course.

Just for the sake of example, here follows the UTG's opening range counting by combos:

QQ+, JdJh, JhJs, JdJc, JhJc, TdTh, ThTs, TdTc, ThTc, 9d9h, 9h9s, 9s9c, 8d8h, 8h8s, 8s8c, 7d7h, 7d7s, 6d6h, 6d6s, 5d5h, 5d5s, 4d4h, 4d4s, 3d3h, 3d3s, 2d2h, 2d2s, AQs+, KsQs, KcQc, AsJs, AcJc, KsJs, KcJc, QsJs, QcJc, AsTs, AcTc, KsTs, KcTc, QsTs, QcTc, JsTs, JcTc, As9s, Ac9c, Ks9s, Kc9c, Ts9s, Tc9c, As8s, Ac8c, 9s8s, 9c8c, As5s, Ac5c, As4s, Ac4c, As3s, Ac3c, As2s, Ac2c, AKo, AhQd, AsQd, AhJd, AsJd, KhQd, KsQd (7.84%)

Versus a 7.84% realistic opening range, SB will have 36.88% of equity, which seems fine, but it is not.
Versus a 15% realistic opening range, SB will have 39.17% of equity, which seems fine, but it is not.
If you see that UTG is opening too much and fold a lot to preflop 3-bet, you should always Squeeze your QJ, although this is a very weak hand for so doing versus EP.

If we consider that UTG and SB are deep stacked, the situation becomes even more a clear fold.
Why?

A) Because UTG will always have better Queens and Jacks than you: UTG will have AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, not to mention that UTG will have all the combos of AA, KK, QQ and JJ. When you hit your equity, it will be, most of times, a reverse implied odds scenario.

B) Because a player with a broken stack called from the BTN, and we have no ideia what this player is calling with. Do we?

C) Because we are in the worst position ever postflop: The Small Blind. You will have to play with both BTN and UTG dominating your range, because the player in the Button will easily have better Queens and Jacks than you, the same of UTG. BTN also will have AJ and KJ in its range.

IMO, if I was going to play a weak Queen from the SB, in a spot where the BTN has called in the middle of the road, it would be KQs, at least! I will find some folds of KQs and even AQs from the SB depending how nit the player in the UTG is.
Of course most of times I will be 3-betting AQs from the SB, I can be folding one combo from time to time.

PS: not intention of being rude, respect always, but we are not playing "full-houses", "flushes" or Top Pair Top Kicker: for the simple fact that, it doesn't matter if we have a full-house and we are NOT going to be paid by a worse hand!!! So, which value my Full House has?
In this case, it has the value of making you lose a lot of money in the long run, because you started to put yourself in a very delicated and embarassing spot preflop, by calling, to play out of position in a 3-handed pot (extreme high variance).
As you saw, you hit your hand and was behind of BTN's range. It doesn't matter at all the hand we have: are we really, indeed, in fact ahead in a spot like this? But, on the other hand, could you ever fold a Full-House versus a player with broken stack from the BTN?
Would you ever expect that BTN could ever cold call preflop with such strong a hand as QQ? Do you imagine why the player in the BTN did it? Good questions.

In my personal gameplan, I am either 3-betting or FOLDING from the SB. I will call about 5% of times, if I call too much when it comes an easy mini-raise from a player in position and another player calls, and then I know the Big Blind is not a spewy squeezor, then, maybe I can call here 5% of times, but even so, it is too much calling (at the micros). I am thinking about calling only in very specific scenarios, like 3.5% of times.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[c0rnBr34d]

Semi grunch so sorry an advance for what I'm sure will be more of the same.
1 - Fold pre to the UTG raise with QJo
2 - Don't donk lead flop in a 3 way pot with the PFR behind you, they have hands like QQ+ still in their uncapped range. Check / call instead. As played fold to the flop raise.
3 - Turn is probably kind of trivial due to remaining stack and pot size depending on reads we could explore if we can do anything other than x/c. Probably not but maybe in some cases we don't have to double this guy up even when we make the mistake of calling pre. But that means we don't donk lead flop and we x/c flop and turn and x/eval river. V could be concerned about an 8 in a single raised pot and elect not to get it all in.

It looks like with your line you are over anxious and too quick to get stacks in with top pair decent kicker hands. You will win some big pots this way but you will also lose some big pots this way if you aren't careful about ranging your opponents and considering position and stack size.

 

[GWU73]

Fold pre flop from the small blind. I might call in the big blind though if opponents are clueless.

Flop, donk bet is a mistake. You get action from any 8, any J, or over pair. Of all that you you only beat JT or J9. You may get raised. What then? Honestly calling a street vs a c-bet would be ok, but multi way, with a marginal hand I tend to just fold. It's better to make a small mistake than a big one.

Turn doesn't really change anything. You do have a full house, but so does everyone else, unless they hit quads, which isn't too unrealistic in this hand.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Its rarely a good strategy to cold call a raise out of the small blind seat, and certainly not with a hand like QJo. You are not getting a good price, you are not closing action, and you are going to be out of position against everyone postflop. This should just have been an easy fold, and its not even a decision to be honest.

Flop
You flopped top pair, but the board is paired, and you dont even have top kicker. I dont care much for donk betting here. If you are ahead, they probably just fold, and if you are behind, they call or raise. You do in fact get raised by the field caller, and now you should just fold. Your hand is not good enough to play a big pot.

Turn
This was a good card for you, because now its less likely, someone has an 8, and if someone has AJ or KJ, its now a split pot. Even so I still dont care much for your donk bet. You got raised on the flop, so he is representing a hand better than yours, and if he has a draw, now he is drawing dead, and he is not going to call. So you are never folding out a better hand, and you are never getting called by worse either.

Conclusion
This is an example of, what Blackrain79 calls the "snowball effect". You get involved preflop with a hand, you should just have folded, and this little mistake snowball into a big ugly pile of snow during the hand.

 

[greatgame230]

Hi, as everyone mentioned to you in the thread you should fold in the pre-flop with QJo and even more in the position of SB, but I like to put it in context these hands, you are playing a micro-level you probably thought of that moment to call with QJo for only 5 cents and see the flop was worth it, so for that reason I do not consider it an easy fold, where you had to fold and it was not so easy either it was in the flop after the bet the villain and It was not so easy because what hands beat you at that time 8x (very unlikely but it happens) QQ, KK and AA then from my point of view on the turn there was nothing to do there was no way that at that time you fold a full house, yes you had to fold in the re-flop especially for the spot you were are, you should not lose that money but it was not such a bad hand played just by the level of the table

 

[fundiver199]

Hi, as everyone mentioned to you in the thread you should fold in the pre-flop with QJo and even more in the position of SB, but I like to put it in context these hands, you are playing a micro-level you probably thought of that moment to call with QJo for only 5 cents and see the flop was worth it, so for that reason I do not consider it an easy fold, where you had to fold and it was not so easy either it was in the flop after the bet the villain and It was not so easy because what hands beat you at that time 8x (very unlikely but it happens) QQ, KK and AA then from my point of view on the turn there was nothing to do there was no way that at that time you fold a full house, yes you had to fold in the re-flop especially for the spot you were are, you should not lose that money but it was not such a bad hand played just by the level of the table

On the turn Hero was sort of doomed to dubble up the field caller, since he only started with half a stack, but this does still not mean, Hero played the turn well. The preflop raiser was also still in the hand, and he can certainly have all the AA, KK, QQ and JJ of the world. He and Hero were also both deep, so donk leading into him for 40BB with esentially just top pair is really bad. Hero was lucky, it was the field caller, who had the overpair, because otherwise this would have gotten a lot more expensive.