Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 22/10/1

iPoker - €0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 39.5 BB
SB: 85 BB
Hero (BB): 135 BB
UTG: 99.5 BB
CO: 153 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 2♠ A♠

fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, SB calls 6 BB

Flop: (18 BB, 2 players) 7♣ 5♣ 8♠
SB checks, Hero bets 9 BB, SB calls 9 BB

Turn: (36 BB, 2 players) 6♠
SB bets 21 BB, Hero ?????


Villain here has given me poor pot odds to call to the flush draw. But do the implied odds make it worth the call? (I understand a flush draw has worse implied odds than a straight draw due to how much more obvious it looks on the board when it runs out.)

My feeling at the time as played was villain made the straight, and that I was going to take their stack fairly often if I hit the nut flush but be losing the hand if I missed my draw.

Realistically villain will not always have the straight, they could also be drawing to one or the other flush draw, or to the straight, or less likely have an overpair or a set (range vs range I actually though I was beaten by the turn about 55-60% of the time when I took a look after the fact with an equity calculator). The lead out on the turn though reeked of strength from a villain who has only bet on 3/19 turns over 128 hands, with a WTSD 8/32 (25). I'm not relying heavily on those stats given the small sample, but they did have me leaning towards thinking the straight was made when villain leads out on the turn with a strong bet - in other words I felt I was beat in this spot unless the flush draw came in and I made the call based on the implied odds as my equity vs the pot odds suggested it was not a good call. Was this correct?

I think it's close. If you expect to always get paid your good. I'm not sure i understand the c bet, but when in doubt, I bet too.

Fair point regarding the c bet. I tend to c bet nearly everything in position at 2nl, especially vs 1 villain. In a vacuum though maybe that does not look like a great spot to be c betting after the 3 bet bluff leaves me behind lot of his range on that flop. I would imagine though, that if I was playing my range the c bet is not too bad? Hands like AA, KK, QQ could be getting value charging villains draws, right?

I don't think you have odds to call turn here unless we know for sure he will call a huge river bet if we hit. I think most players fold but since the flush is back door maybe this guy could pay off unless we know for sure though we aren't getting odds. If V is over folding then it may be closer since we can rep both the clubs and the spades coming in.

Preflop: Standard.

Flop: you shouldn't c-bet everything on this type of boards, where villain can check-raise you so often. For you it's much better to check back and realize your backdoor equities. On straight boards you should bluff with hands better connected to the board. Also, I don't like your sizing. You achieve nothing by betting half pot, all straight draws, overcards with backdoor, gutshots plus pairs happily will call your stupid bet. You should bet around 66%-75% of pot here. Very poorly played.

Turn: As played, it's obvious villain has straight here most of the time.Pot is huge already, which decreases your implied odds. It's fold.

You have to know that your ace is no good if you hit that. The only thing you can draw to is the flush, and if the board pairs with it, what do you do then? I think you got yourself too far in the hand drawing. If you feel that you can bluff your opponent no matter what the river is, then it's a play worth making to see the river through.

It's close, probably fold because he can have a FD or just a spade himself in which case you are fked and he can also make some straight flushes sometimes so you got some RIO

But a bigger issue imo is betting on that flop which hits him really well and you not so much

Preflop
Calling and 3-betting is both fine here.

Flop
I lean towards checking back with intentions to mostly give up, if he bet the turn. Given the board this is one of the worst hands, you can even have, that would 3-bet pre, and its usually fine to just give up with the bottom of your range.

Turn
I lean towards making the call. He is basically representing a straight, and at 2NL a lot of players are simply incapable of folding a hand that strong, so I do think, your implied odds are pretty good. I am not worried about board pairing cards, because it would be really weird for him to take this line with a flopped set.

The only hand, I expect to see here other than a straight, is a bluff, mostly likely the other flushdraw. This also mean, that your A high does have at least a small amount of showdown value. He could have a hand like KcQc, KcJc, QcJc etc., and if you both miss, the river might go check-check, and you take it down.

Thanks all.

I called. Villain had Q9 diamonds. River was a 3 of spades. Stacked him, so paid off on this occasion.

Some study I've been doing this week would have me checking flop most times on this board going forward, so good relevant points there.

Lets say you call and then 7 of spades comes and villain goes all in whats then? 5 spades also puts you in difficult spot.
Lets say borad K736ss and vilain bets half pot you can call because not only spade helps you but also if River comes A.

Apparently, we're playing against an autocaller. So why bet on the flop? If he has a ready hand, he will not fold, even if he has a draw or an overcard, he will not fold. Now let's move on to the pot odds. On the turn, we are offered pot odds of 21/57 or 2.7 to 1, we need 4 to 1, we are short of 27bb. With which hands will the opponent pay us 27bb if we collect our flush? These are ready-made hands, such as straight, flush lower. Since the passive player showed aggression on the turn, we can assume that he already has a ready hand, most likely it is a straight, so the count is justified. But I would play a check on the flop, and call on the turn

Originally Posted by GreenDaddy1

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 22/10/1

iPoker - €0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 39.5 BB
SB: 85 BB
Hero (BB): 135 BB
UTG: 99.5 BB
CO: 153 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 2♠ A♠

fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, SB calls 6 BB

Flop: (18 BB, 2 players) 7♣ 5♣ 8♠
SB checks, Hero bets 9 BB, SB calls 9 BB

Turn: (36 BB, 2 players) 6♠
SB bets 21 BB, Hero ?????


Villain here has given me poor pot odds to call to the flush draw. But do the implied odds make it worth the call? (I understand a flush draw has worse implied odds than a straight draw due to how much more obvious it looks on the board when it runs out.)

My feeling at the time as played was villain made the straight, and that I was going to take their stack fairly often if I hit the nut flush but be losing the hand if I missed my draw.

Realistically villain will not always have the straight, they could also be drawing to one or the other flush draw, or to the straight, or less likely have an overpair or a set (range vs range I actually though I was beaten by the turn about 55-60% of the time when I took a look after the fact with an equity calculator). The lead out on the turn though reeked of strength from a villain who has only bet on 3/19 turns over 128 hands, with a WTSD 8/32 (25). I'm not relying heavily on those stats given the small sample, but they did have me leaning towards thinking the straight was made when villain leads out on the turn with a strong bet - in other words I felt I was beat in this spot unless the flush draw came in and I made the call based on the implied odds as my equity vs the pot odds suggested it was not a good call. Was this correct?

Hello there GreenDaddy1, thank you for posting your hand.

Preflop Action:

Given that the SB is a recreational player, we see no problem in raising here with A2s, because SB position attempts to steal a lot of blinds and A2s will have a good playability postflop in position.
Sometimes, when SB 4-bets we must go for a 5-bet shove here, because of the removal.
SB calls your 3x 3bet and we take a flop:

The Flop:

This kind of mid connected flop favours more the SB's range than yours. It is very close here between betting and checking. Ever since SB decided to check, we could check behind too and see a free turn and evaluate our equity by the same time we don't make the pot grows too much.
When we c-bet 1/2 pot in a 3-bet pot we will have a lot of bluffs here. What do we have hit? A8 that hit TP and it is firing the pot? AA? KK? Okay, we do have these hands on our range, because we 3-bet preflop, however I don't see many turns and rivers so good for us.
Your 1/2 pot C-bet is way too optmistic. When SB calls you gotta ask which part of the 20% 3-bet call SB vs BB does it continue with.

The Turn:

If we had checked, SB could not bet so heavy here in the turn. And when SB donks this turn it seems a lot a bet for protection: there are two flush draws and the turns completes some straights with 4x and 9x.
Or if we had made a 1/3 pot bet, maybe we could have the proper odds to call this donk turn.
Here is a very tricky scenario, where we could be almost dead for straights. We don't have many options here, but IMO, calling is never an option here. We are either jamming here or folding, and I guess the fold is a little +EV line.
Against a very wide range we are barely breakeven. However, we don't know for sure what is SB donking with.
You have to know how do you play your entire range from the BB when you 3-bet preflop and polarizes flop by betting 1/2 pot: You have AA, KK, QQ, TT, 99, AKs, A2s, AQs, sometimes 77 and 88.
We know that when you have AA, KK, QQ, TT and 99 you are not folding very easy here, specially 99 because now you have a very strong value hand. AKs, A2s, AQs, Ax suited in general we must consider if we are going to polarize connected flop as we do with AA, KK and QQ.
You gotta have a checking range somewhere, you gotta find it for yourself.
In the worst case scenario, in this turn, we would have something between 20% to 27% equity to hit our flush in the river and Villain bets a little more than 1/2 pot.
Maybe we are good here QQ, JJ, TT, But this turn completes way too much Villain's equity almost anything it has right now is killing us, so no aces or deuces are going to be good in the river, only the flush. We know that if we jam here now, SB would never fold, so we can see that SB has a clear range advantage when it donks turn:

99-44, A9s, K9s, Q9s, J9s, T9s, 97s+, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, 43s

All of this range is beating us in this turn, without counting QQ, JJ, TT that it decided to call 3-bet preflop.

PS: Forget about WTSD and similar stuff, unless you have more than 5 K hands played with villain. We ae not playing HUD Display, but poker, sorry for my candor.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa