$2 NLHE 6-max: Flopped Trips in 3bet pot vs possible fish

PokerNinja91

PokerNinja91

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Hey guys,

This hand just happened while playing 2NL Zoom for a bankroll challenge and I didn't really know how to play it post flop. I think the call pre flop is fine - I have reason to believe he is 3betting hands weaker than AA,KK pre flop as I have a note on him saying that he 3bet AJo BB vs MP, I could 4bet but I have position with a nice hand that is ahead of at least some of his range, also I think players at this limit are going to be making more mistakes post flop. His stats look pretty normal but this is Zoom so it can be difficult to identify the fish just from their VPIP/PFR as they generally tighten up pre flop in the Zoom games. Although he doesn't have a full stack so I'll assume he isn't a reg.

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/17573482_9ADDBEDE5B

Flop: Maybe I could re-raise IP as he can call with worse. What do you think?

Turn: I think now I have to just call, if I had a heart in my hand then maybe I can shove, but as played I don't think I'm getting called by worse now. I can only put him on AK with the K of hearts, KQh or AJ when he barrels again, A10 would surely slow down now. I'm not sure if he's betting KK with a heart here, that's the only hand that I'm realistically beating imo, hence the call.

River: Got to be a standard fold, no issues there - Maybe I was already crushed and the heart was a blessing in disguise. But how do you think I should have played flop? And as played, would you fold turn? :)
 
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MinhANguyen

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I think hand was well played. Flop just flatcall. We want to keep in his bluffs. It's a pretty dry board. Can't really fold turn. He might be continuing with his semi-bluffs or AQ/AJ. River is definitely a fold.
 
IPlay

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I don't like the call pre. We are going to miss often, we don't have initiative, reverse implied odds. When we hit the A or Q we are most likely not getting action unless we are beat anyway. It will also be hard to bluff with an SPR of 3.5 so we basically have to hit our hand.
 
No Brainer

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I don't like the call pre. We are going to miss often, we don't have initiative, reverse implied odds. When we hit the A or Q we are most likely not getting action unless we are beat anyway. It will also be hard to bluff with an SPR of 3.5 so we basically have to hit our hand.

Are you suggesting to raise or fold? Also if raise are you raising to get it in or to fold to a shove? Would you call if this was BTN vs blind?
 
IPlay

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I'm just folding.

BTN vs blind I am always calling
 
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MinhANguyen

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Without the read that he 3-bet MP with AJo, folding or 4-bet folding is fine since we opened UTG.
 
Trabendo_daze

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Personally, I really can't imagine folding this preflop. We have to put in .13 to win .39, we are IP with a great hand. We are going to make less mistakes than our opponent right? I mean reverse implied odds if his A high range only consists of AK, but I think even ATs is in there (why not?). Plus we're making huge equity mistakes if he's 3 betting 22-JJ. But I am the one who just posted about losing a ton of money on AQ, haha.
 
IPlay

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The range of 22+,AJs+,ATo+ puts us at a slightly losing coin flip with AQs. I think we are being optimistic about his range though. We don't know if AJo is the bottom of his 3 bet range MP v BB and maybe he is only 3 betting 88+ AQ+ vs UTG and we are obviously crushed by that range.

The RIO comes in from the fact that if we flop our hand we are only winning small to medium pots or losing large pots. We also have no initiative and we are folding the majority of times that we miss so I don't think there is a lot of value to be had here. It is very far off to say that folding AQs here is a huge mistake. We do have immediate odds but post flop is going to be awkward to play.

All in all this is 2NL so villains are probably 3 betting A10 from the blinds vs UTG and stacking off with top pair.

.
 
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Trabendo_daze

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IPlay I think your points about RIO make a lot of sense. It is going to be tough float here even if we are in the lead on a J73 rainbow board for example (Against ATo in this case). I didn't mean that folding AQs is a huge mistake in general, just when BB has medium-low pocket pairs. However, I think you're right that we can discount those since he is 3-betting vs. a strong UTG range.

To continue to play devil's advocate, I ran a Pokerstove on 88+,AQ+ and we are about 40% to win there (and we need 33% immediate odds).

Anyways, my point is just that the spot is one of those that falls in the "it depends" realm of things. If you're feeling good, your head is screwed on straight, and you think you can outplay villain, I'd say the call is more than fine. If not, folding makes a lot of sense too.
 
No Brainer

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To continue to play devil's advocate, I ran a Pokerstove on 88+,AQ+ and we are about 40% to win there (and we need 33% immediate odds).

There is no point in looking at this situation in terms of the actual equity we have against villains range as there are so many other factors involved and at no point are we looking to get stacks in. Rather we should be looking at the situation as a whole and whether or not it is a +EV spot. Check out Johns recent blog post for a better explanation http://www.acepokersolutions.com/poker-blog/youre-playing-no-limit-not-limit-holdem/

After reading through the posts I think this spot is close, we could justify calling just because it is 2NL but it would make it much easier if we had some sort of post flop read on villain.
 
Trabendo_daze

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Fair enough No Brainer, the point is well-taken about EV. Unfortunately, EV is this super abstract concept that can never be calculated with preflop decisions. There are just so many factors that go into the preflop "cauldron" (as one jcarver puts it). Stack sizes, game flow, how much water you have drank today, your cards, how many people are in the pot...the list goes on. Anyways, this isn't a point as much as it's a side comment.

My blind-defend strategy has been mostly modeled after the jcarver runitup videos where he would snap defend 54cc in that John A spot and even sometimes like J4s, no joke. He is a pro, but not THE BEST pro. He also can navigate weird scenarios that we get into by defending tbese types of hands better than other people. I think blind defense could be a leak of mine and appreciate this thread for helping me figure that out.
 
PokerNinja91

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Yeah, whether we call here preflop is entirely situational on villain and our own ability. I'm comfortable calling here and I think it is profitable for me, atleast at these limits. My questions were about my play post flop - whether we should raise flop and whether maybe we can fold turn given that we're now beat by all of his high aces except AQ.
 
Trabendo_daze

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I don't think we can raise flop for value. We aren't getting many worse hands to call right? Literally only AJ. Unless you have a read on this guy that he's super aggressive, I think he's shutting down on turns if he has JJ-KK. Turn is villain dependent. If he's possibly bluffing like 88 or semi-bluffing, I think you can argue a call here. This is especially true if you have a tighter image. Folding river.
 
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