$2 NLHE 6-max: Facing a turn raise with TPTK

playthosekings

playthosekings

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PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 75 BB
BB: 62.5 BB
UTG: 61.5 BB
MP: 83.5 BB
Hero (CO): 180.5 BB
BTN: 113 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K A

UTG calls 1 BB, MP calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 5 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 4 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (12.5 BB, 2 players) K 4 T
BB checks, Hero bets 6 BB, BB calls 6 BB

Turn: (24.5 BB, 2 players) 7
BB checks, Hero bets 15 BB, BB raises to 30 BB, Hero calls 15 BB

River: (84.5 BB, 2 players) T
BB bets 21.5 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 21.5 BB

Preflop
Preflop raise standard 3bb+1/limper
BB flats likely a wide range, unknown player

Flop
Flop is relatively good as we get top pair, club flush draw is out
Cbet to 1/2 pot - Maybe should have made it 3/4 pot to price out flush draws, but I also have the Ac blocker
He calls, at this point what do I think his range looks like? (I do block A and K)

1 pair hands: Kx, Tx, A4, Q4c, 54c, 64c
2 pair hands: K4s, KT
Sets: likely none - unlikely 3bet KK, TT preflop, unlikely to call 44
Straights: QJ for OESD, 98c and 65c for BDSD
Flush draws: Any reasonable Kx Qx Jx Tx flush draw, pair+flush draw hands (54c 64c), 98c, 76c

The turn
The turn comes 7h, which is nice as 77 likely isn't in the pot and not a club, but gives backdoor straight draws to 98c and 65c, K7c, T7o just improved to two pair possibly
A lot of the time if I was ahead on the flop I'll still be ahead, so shot again for 1/2 pot
Min reraises me here. It is unlikely a 7 improved his hand but it could have, or he has a great made hand from the flop. I feel this sizing is unlikely from a flush draw as it isn't going to generate lots of fold equity. Questionable call here?

River
At this point I am getting worried and a T peels on the river. Any hand with a T has just become the nuts and he shoves into me.

BB is effectively priced in at this point and likely shoving with his whole range (some busted flush draws and worse Kx too..) and I have to call 21.5BB to win a pot of 123BB (17.5% of the time).

Do you think TPTK holds up 17.5% of the time here? What could I have done better? Is it super nitty to fold TPTK on the turn?
 
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Aballinamion

Aballinamion

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PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 75 BB
BB: 62.5 BB
UTG: 61.5 BB
MP: 83.5 BB
Hero (CO): 180.5 BB
BTN: 113 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K A

UTG calls 1 BB, MP calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 5 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 4 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (12.5 BB, 2 players) K 4 T
BB checks, Hero bets 6 BB, BB calls 6 BB

Turn: (24.5 BB, 2 players) 7
BB checks, Hero bets 15 BB, BB raises to 30 BB, Hero calls 15 BB

River: (84.5 BB, 2 players) T
BB bets 21.5 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 21.5 BB

Preflop
Preflop raise standard 3bb+1/limper
BB flats likely a wide range, unknown player

Sorry, but this is possible, not standard: given how much often players do call, at the micros-mid, and how many bluffs we are raising versus limpers (AK, KQ, QJ, etc), I don't like this size, because they are going to call even if you raise 10 bb, when they believe they should, and almost always with a capped range.
Second, BB does not flat a wide range. If the player is unknown how can you assume if its range is wide or narrow? A little bit contradictory, but considering the logic of the game, when you raise for 5 blinds we are not expecting 63o, 92s, etc to be calling, but at least a decent range.

Flop
Flop is relatively good as we get top pair, club flush draw is out
Cbet to 1/2 pot - Maybe should have made it 3/4 pot to price out flush draws, but I also have the Ac blocker
He calls, at this point what do I think his range looks like? (I do block A and K)

Although I am not a great fan of playing GTO versus fishes, sometimes I use some of its concepts in situations like this: this board hits very much your range, that now is way more stronger than when you simply raise 3x, when it comes in fold to you.
So, eveytime you raise with your semi-bluffs and get called on the middle of the road for an unknown player, are you going for 1/2 pot, 2/3 pot, 3/4 pot considering the absolute strength of your particular hand, not how we should play scenarios like this versus a broken stack 'ish' player.
I like the 1/2 pot c-bet with Tx, Kx, KT, AK, KQ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, our flush draws of clubs and straight draws. However, this pot contains 12.5 blinds already, and if we want to play our best game possible, 1/3 pot would work just fine, because the pot is bigger than usual, when we do raise 3x and get called (6.5 blinds), now the pot is nearly the double of a regular pot, which should alter the way we play our ranges.

1 pair hands: Kx, Tx, A4, Q4c, 54c, 64c
2 pair hands: K4s, KT
Sets: likely none - unlikely 3bet KK, TT preflop, unlikely to call 44
Straights: QJ for OESD, 98c and 65c for BDSD
Flush draws: Any reasonable Kx Qx Jx Tx flush draw, pair+flush draw hands (54c 64c), 98c, 76c

As I mentioned before, you are assuming a VERY large range for an unknown player, where you can be totally right and totally wrong on the other side of the coin, because if you consider the range that calls 2 bb for a pot of 6 to be wider, but a range that needs to pay 4 bb, to play out of position, usually is not so wide, so we must try to be realistic here and, of course, consider this possibility given the players is unknown, but also go the next level and think about more narrows ranges as a possibility, not a known fact.

The turn
The turn comes 7h, which is nice as 77 likely isn't in the pot and not a club, but gives backdoor straight draws to 98c and 65c, K7c, T7o just improved to two pair possibly
A lot of the time if I was ahead on the flop I'll still be ahead, so shot again for 1/2 pot
Min reraises me here. It is unlikely a 7 improved his hand but it could have, or he has a great made hand from the flop. I feel this sizing is unlikely from a flush draw as it isn't going to generate lots of fold equity. Questionable call here?

It is a very suspicious bet, because BB/Villain goes for 2/3 pot? This is, of course a very good price to continue paying with TPTK, but not such a good price to be going with Two Pair and Sets (we would be raising those right, given the connectivity of the board).
If you really had in mind such a pretty wild range for the BB, and given the difference of stack sizes between Hero and Villain, plus the awesome price BB gave with this check-raise we should be jamming right off the bat, not calling.

I am more inclined of either jamming or folding, because otherwise we are entering into some lunatic leveling/guessing game, and sometimes we put a lot of effort trying to picture Villain's range just to get frustrated in the end.
Besides, if you believe that BB had called you with a wide range, BB should've a lot of bluffs right now, much more bluffs than values, and you have a very respectful combo that blocks the nut flush that could be doing and some straight nuts that also could be doing it: one more reason for jamming. Needless to say that we block some AT, KT, AK, etc that could be doing it.
When we do call here what is our plan for the River? Call 100% of rivers that Villain shoves or fold 100% of rivers that Villain shoves?

River
At this point I am getting worried and a T peels on the river. Any hand with a T has just become the nuts and he shoves into me.

BB is effectively priced in at this point and likely shoving with his whole range and I have to call 21.5BB to win a pot of 123BB (17.5% of the time).

Do you think TPTK holds up 17.5% of the time here? What could I have done better? Is it super nitty to fold TPTK on the turn?

I don't think so, but you have to call. You are blocking a lot of hands and BB could be shoving missed draws. If this was a spot where BB could have no bluffs, or less bluffs and the SPR was not screaming, we could be thinking about folding.
You didn't need to be worried like this on the river if you had jammed on the turn.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
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playthosekings

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Wow, thanks for the detailed reply. I think you have replied to every one of my posts thus far. I really appreciate how active you are on this forum and the help you give out.

I will take your advice and put it into action. I liked the point about either jamming or folding on the turn.

Have a great day man.
 
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Sidetracked

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This is such a villain dependent spot. Some players will think that KQ is the nuts in than spot and go crazy. Others will only take villain's line with at least 2 pr or sets.

Do you have any specific reads on villain?
 
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fundiver199

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Preflop
You have to love a game, where two players limp into the pot and then fold to a relatively small isolation raise. You could go a little larger here, but 5BB is pretty traditional.

Flop
On a wet board like this I prefer a larger C-bet, especially at 2NL, where I expect players to make a lot of calling mistakes.

Turn
I like your turn C-bet including the sizing. And then he mini-raise, which is pretty gross. The first thing to notice here is, that he have so little behind, that continuing in the hand commits both of you to the pot. He should therefore have moved all in, and the fact, he did not, confirm, he is a fish. You should also move all in, if you are going to continue. You are not going to fold for a 1/4 pot bet on the river, and he is not going to bluff you either.

So its decision time. If you think, he has enough KQ/KJ or bluffs, then stack off. Against most fishy players though I think, you will be shown two pair or a set most of the time. So to answer your question, no its not to nitty to fold. It is probably in fact a good general exploit against fish.

River
As played its a sigh-call. You dont expect to win very often, but you are getting 5:1, and you made the decision to stack off on the turn. You should basically call here on any card simply because of the price. But assume there was more stack behind, then the T was actually a very good card to get sticky on, because now its less likely, he has TT or KT, and we dont expect him to be mini-raising second pair on the turn. So its more likely now, that he has KQ/ KJ or a bluff. And all the draws missed.
 
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maxi_j

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PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 75 BB
BB: 62.5 BB
UTG: 61.5 BB
MP: 83.5 BB
Hero (CO): 180.5 BB
BTN: 113 BB


Sets: likely none - unlikely 3bet KK, TT preflop, unlikely to call 44

Small stack (79BB or worse) at micros is a recreational player sign. He definitely has 44 and TT in his range.
 
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