$2 NLHE 6-max: Doubts about Cbet for value on Turn!

Phoenix2223

Phoenix2223

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pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 5 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: $1.78 (89 bb)
CO (Hero): $2.02 (101 bb)
BU: $0.68 (34 bb)(VPIP: 27, PFR: 2, Hands: 56)
SB: $2.00 (100 bb)
BB: $4.27 (214 bb)(VPIP: 86, PFR: 0, Hands: 8)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero is CO with Q K
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.05, BTN calls $0.05, 1 fold, BB calls $0.03


Flop: ($0.16) Q 8 5 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.12, BTN calls $0.12, BB calls $0.12

I think this CBet is pretty standard to extract value of Qx and possible Straight Draws.If you disagree about this sizing, let me know!

Turn: ($0.52) 4 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero ???

Here is my doubt.Turn Card is bad, but for me not too much. It completes only 76 Straights.
1: Do you think after this Turn Card(Considering 3Way Pot), against this type of players there is still too much value to extract?
2: What is the best line here, Cbet big size, CBet small size or Check/Call(maybe fold) ?
 
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braveslice

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BB is VPIP 86% raise pre at least 10bb (Not to get folds but calls with value)

1:Yes, as long as the fish is there you should bet for value mostly the river too against the fish imo given your opening size that invites call and thus gives your TPGK more value than normally even against the nit and so nits range on the turn is somewhat wide still and compensated by fish range. Personally I would CB a bit smaller, not sure why though.
 
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UkoChebuko

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The size on the flop is not bad, but with 50% will be easier on the turn and the river. Now with this bet on the flop, you can bet let's say 40% on the turn. Some player can see this, as "weakness", and he can raise with a weaker hand (for protection). And you can't call. Keep it simple. 50% bet on the flop, 50% bet on the turn (versus two players). On the river you can try to catch a bluff, but only vs one player (one call on the turn). In this case vs BU.
:D. I saw this BU: $0.68., but too late.I am so sorry. Well, big bet on the flop (as played), big bet on the turn (BU must be All in). Pot size...
 
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micromoi

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the raise preflop is very very weak you need to make it 4bb to 5bb. the cbet is 2/3pot thats ok to me, i would bet the turn also 2/3pot there u cant give a free card there is flush draws that have to pay to see another card.
 
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cs_rlewis

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Raise pre flop is fine. If you always raise this much then it's fine, nothing wrong with 2.5bb, just don't make it less than this. Don't feel the need to make it 4 or 5bb just because the people on this forum tell you to. Play your own game.
When playing out of position in multiway pots our value range should be tighter. Kq should definitely bet on this flop.
As for the turn you can go either way. I prefer checking because you are multiway and OOP. I'm not folding if someone bets.
 
TenJack

TenJack

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BU stack size makes this sort of awkward, i think I am value betting still on the turn. Obviusly if he jams we have a bit of a decision but he looks like the type that is just going to call, call, call until his stack is gone. I don't see this guy jamming.

As for preflop, I have honestly never been a fan of the 2.5x thing, there really is no point in not just making it 3. You squeze another BB of value if you get called twice. But do your thing. It is nitpicky to get uptight 'bout it. But do make sure that if you are going to use 2.5x as your opener that is what you always use. 2.5x with AA, 2.5x with 72o right?
 
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braveslice

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BB is VPIP 86% raise pre at least 10bb (Not to get folds but calls with value)
Oops I meant 0.10$ -> 5bb that is standard for many in 2NL and fish won’t notice. If he calls 10bb raise with trash then you use that size obviously. Also I totally missed the BU stack size, but good thing it’s BU and not BB.

And yes at 2NL you go for maximum exploitative line. There is no do what you feel like in poker, there is always a reason for everything, this includes bet sizing too. In 2NL the main profit comes from max value and min lost vs a fish.

Let say you want to ‘balance’ raising bigger size with good hands vs fish. Let say you raise AQ+, TT+ fish thinks you are mostly bluffing with your raises because you raise non-made hands like AK, he also calls trash because he loves to win against AA with two pairs and so on, but after making his pair or even top pair on the flop like 752 he can't let it go anymore.

The learning curve goes somewhat like first new player uses big bet = good hand, then he learns to use standard sizes, on third phase he learns to alter his bet sizes (given opponent not [purely] hand strength), fourth he is able to mix standard size and exploit bet sizes given the whole mix of opponents on the table, I don’t know what comes after that but surely learning bet sizes continues throughout the poker career until gto is all there is.
 
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Hujiko

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Preflop could be bigger but don't mind 2.5 BB. Flop sizing is good against fish you have top pair and a good kicker so you want to build the pot even it is multi way.

Both call not the best result you rather go heads up so I would proceed with more caution on the turn.

On the turn you can either bet or just check.
I you check here you can see what the button does. If the BTN bets I would call if the BB calls or fold and fold myself if the BB suddenly raises the BTN. If BTN checks back then I will bet on the river or call the bet from the BB.
If you bet and both call I would try to check it down on the river and fold against a BB bet a bet from the BTN I would prob call if the BB folds.
 
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777alex777

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you play against shortstack and the big fish, they didn't show any strength. I would play Bet
 
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