$2 NLHE 6-max: call,fold or all-in ?

PaxMundi

PaxMundi

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Vs Villains sizing i probably don't have much fold equity but never say never and JJ likely has around the same ev as QQ or AK from these positions and i'm never folding those hands.So how do you proceed with JJ from these positions is folding to tight ? and is calling 4bets with JJ a good idea ?.I haven't previously employed a flatting range vs 4bets as it wasn't really a popular strategy in the past especially 100bb deep.

Villain
vpip/prf/3bet
27/15/0
Hands 27

Thank you.


CO: $2.29 (114.5 bb)
BTN: $1.01 (50.5 bb)
Hero (SB): $3.22 (161 bb)
BB: $2.52 (126 bb)
UTG: $2.38 (119 bb)
MP: $1.99 (99.5 bb)

Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has J J
2 folds, CO raises to $0.06, fold, Hero raises to $0.24, fold, CO raises to $0.68, Hero ?
 
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gustav197poker

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In this case none of you is seriously committed to the boat after preflop. But it is true that JJ has less margin for post flop gameplay. It all depends on the assignment range you do to the villain. You are probably on a safe line when you include smaller pockets, but honestly that shouldn't be on that 4-bet line.
In the best scenario you face a high combination with no value formed, but you cannot block its improvement.
I would say that this could be a profitable fold for protection. Maybe if you were deeper, you would be closer to an optimal call.
Regards.
 
LevySystem

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Imo it's a clear fold. If it was 200bb deep you could make an argument for calling since you get a great price + the implieds, But other then that you will have a hard time realizing you're equity postflop OOP.
 
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mengarda

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In cash games I don't like to get stuck preflop. I only do that with AA and KK.
 
eetenor

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Vs Villains sizing i probably don't have much fold equity but never say never and JJ likely has around the same ev as QQ or AK from these positions and i'm never folding those hands.So how do you proceed with JJ from these positions is folding to tight ? and is calling 4bets with JJ a good idea ?.I haven't previously employed a flatting range vs 4bets as it wasn't really a popular strategy in the past especially 100bb deep.

Villain
vpip/prf/3bet
27/15/0
Hands 27

Thank you.


CO: $2.29 (114.5 bb)
BTN: $1.01 (50.5 bb)
Hero (SB): $3.22 (161 bb)
BB: $2.52 (126 bb)
UTG: $2.38 (119 bb)
MP: $1.99 (99.5 bb)

Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has J J
2 folds, CO raises to $0.06, fold, Hero raises to $0.24, fold, CO raises to $0.68, Hero ?


Thank U 4 Posting.

How does the villain get to 50BB?

Short stacker? Going with 1010-22 for stacks pre?

Blinding down? Look out she has it?

Folding rivers? A10 suited vs these donks is way good preflop?

Bad beat? Here take this money too?

Poor hand selection? I will 3 bet my 99 and fold if shoved on?

Have you won a hand that you showed vs villain? With what hand?

Have you won a hand with: preflop agg + medium strength hand preflop and showed it down recently?

Have you showed down a "weak hand" that lost after being agg preflop with it?

Have you won a number of hands with no showdown that looked overly agg?

A combination of these data points will move the scale from either folding or shoving. As with others there is no call here preflop for what is left in villains stack.

You did 3 bet 4x vs a shortie. You may want to look at refining that bet sizing. If the villain can play well, that 4 bet sizing was well thought out. It did exactly what it should do to a thinking player with a hand range of (JJ-).

You may consider 3x to 18 then a 4 bet of 2.8x is to 52- 34 to call. If the villain chooses a larger 4 bet sizing that may indicate wanting folds. We now may have fold equity. We then could call with POS and bet any weakness on flop if our villain was that type of villain.

Would a GOOD shortie not 4 bet AA KK for a different size? Would they even 4 bet AA?
This is 2 NL getting the sizing right is uncommon.:confused:

Hope this helps

:):)
 
0815am

0815am

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I would generally just fold here. JJ will face an over to often to play well postflop especially OOP. I don’t think you have the equity to shove at all so that results on folding.

Also factoring in that he has been rather passive preflop and 4B large for being in position (2.5x).
 
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

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Great

Vs Villains sizing i probably don't have much fold equity but never say never and JJ likely has around the same ev as QQ or AK from these positions and i'm never folding those hands.So how do you proceed with JJ from these positions is folding to tight ? and is calling 4bets with JJ a good idea ?.I haven't previously employed a flatting range vs 4bets as it wasn't really a popular strategy in the past especially 100bb deep.

Villain
vpip/prf/3bet
27/15/0
Hands 27

Thank you.


CO: $2.29 (114.5 bb)
BTN: $1.01 (50.5 bb)
Hero (SB): $3.22 (161 bb)
BB: $2.52 (126 bb)
UTG: $2.38 (119 bb)
MP: $1.99 (99.5 bb)

Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has J J
2 folds, CO raises to $0.06, fold, Hero raises to $0.24, fold, CO raises to $0.68, Hero ?

Hello there Fvendal thanks a lot for sharing your hand. Pretty good one. Now, we know we are playing 2 NLHE for a while. You have a small size of hands (27) but this numbers indicates passivity, because the difference between VPIP and PFR is too large: VPIP 27, PFR 15 (gap of 12!) you will rarely see a good regular, even in a short-term hands like that (27 hands sample), with such a great gap between VPIP and PFR.
Now, Villain's 3bet Preflop is 0 but, for the sample of hands we cannot say for sure that it is only 3betting values, as it looks like.
CO raises to 3x and you raise to 4x. I like your raise here. I like the size too. And I like to call down hands such as 88-QQ depending on:

A) Who is the Villain who open raised in position?
B) Who is the Villain in the Big Blind? Is it more likely to call if I call from the SB?
C) How big are their stacks in comparison to mine (if every player has 150 BB + of effective stack)

In the long run both calling and 3betting are okay, but we gotta be aware that the CO opens a very wide range and most of times a 4x 3bet will scary the hell of Villain's range and it will fold most of his low pocket pairs, some mid pairs as 66, 77, sometimes even 88, if the Big Blind doesn't call, all of his weak Broadways. Regulars will fold. Recreational will call down with 22 a 4x 3bet to see a flop and try to setmine.
By the same line of thinking, when you make a 4x 3bet you gotta expect that Villain will call you with a stronger range and 4bet you with a even stronger range as well. (it is not an EP raise, so there's nothing to worry about)

How to observe polarization Preflop?

So, you made a very decent 3bet size preflop, right? 4x does not give Villain in the CO too many odds for calling/4betting with less then QQ and AQs. And Villain in the CO decided to 4bet you A HUGE SIZING! Yes, I see that 2.83x upon your 3bet size is very hard to pay. I would fold that and never going all-in, even versus very recreational players (unless his stack size is too short in relation to ours).
Villain in the CO polarizes his range a lot with this 2.83x 4bet In position x 4x 3bet Out of position.
Specially a passive player as this one we are playing with. When CO 4bets SB that sizing, it is representing AKs, AA and KK. Even QQ I guess some crazy guys will call or fold, and both lines are correct. (at 2 NLHE).
SO, when we 3bet CO in the first place we will have TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, AKs, AQs, AJs, and some bluffs as A5s-A2s, KQs sometimes. A 3bet coming from the SB represents a very strong range, because there is a chance of playing out of position against two players (If Big Blinds decides to call and CO too). Capped range? SB will call and 3bet always very strong hands? What do you think?
However, when the CO 4bets, it will have all the AA, KK, AKs and sometimes QQ and the SB will have none in their range.
So, giving this condition where Villain makes a huge 4bet Preflop, that could only be paid and got 5bets from a very similar polarized value range, or better. When CO has KK and AKs and 4bets the SB, and the SB comes with a 5bet/Shove it is not an easy call, and a very hard fold for many players at the field.
Nevertheless, considering a range of possibilities, without never run out of other possibilities, if the Villain in the CO had a stack size of 150 BB, your call will be a little bit better, because no matter what it has it will pay SB at least two streets of value (depending on board texture and player) or even three streets of value. Yes, if CO has AA, KK, QQ, it will not leave many flops and turns, unless if you are unlucky to get a very coordinate and drawie-connected flop/turn. By the same token, a 99, TT, JJ and QQ, that could be hands in the SB's calling and 3betting range, will see an overcard 50% of times.

Having information of the behavior of passive players at the tables, we known that they like to put a lot a chips in the middle when they have AKs, AA and KK Preflop, and they are praying to be paid for worse hands such as AQs, QQ, JJ etc. When this passive player 4bets you, it is very polarized to value, and it will have a lot of ace combos which SB have none, except many combos of AJs, that would hardly be in a 4betting light range of a tight passive players, as this example looks like.
Summarizing, nice fold!

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

Propaganda alert!

Do you guys know the CardsChat Hand Converter? https://www.cardschat.com/hand-converter.php
It is very awesome!
 
Last edited:
gon4iypes

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To be honest, this is all rather amusing. You are over analysing, the very smallest of the micro stakes. Which 2c player is even aware of hand ranges? Very few are even aware of positional advantage, etc etc. If it was me, I would call that hand all day long
 
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c0rnBr34d

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To be honest, this is all rather amusing. You are over analysing, the very smallest of the micro stakes. Which 2c player is even aware of hand ranges? Very few are even aware of positional advantage, etc etc. If it was me, I would call that hand all day long
How many of these clueless Vs are putting in 4 bets after not having putting in a 3 bet in 27 hands and posting a modest 15 PFR? The biggest fish tend to call 3 bets with KK+ because they are scared you will fold. This post seems to trivialize the whole 2NL player pool and I don't think that's fair. I mostly play live and have never made an online deposit. As such I play free rolls and pass time at 2NL. I'm sure I'm not the only one who also plays higher but can be found in the lowest stakes. Assuming JJ is ahead of a random Vs 4 bet range with these stats is a mistake IMO. I would expect to be facing AQ+, QQ+ a ton (if not tighter). Which means best case we are flipping a coin for our stack and most likely we are toast.
 
greatgame230

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I fold here in the statistics that are only 27 hands the villain has a high PRF but 0 3bet taking into account this the rage that I would make of AQ, AK, AA, KK or QQ would not call this bet.
 
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