I was unsure what to do on this hand given how wet the flop was. I was unsure between betting and trying to get made pairs and draws to call and thinking that a lot of the hands that will be calling in the spot have pretty good equity against my trips and it will leave me with tough decisions on later streets. The hand being three ways made me even more unsure of what to do.


PokerStars - €0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 20.51, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 40)
SB: 100.5 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
Hero (BB): 157 BB
UTG: 113 BB (VPIP: 22.50, PFR: 17.50, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 40)
MP: 146 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 15.00, 3Bet Preflop: 11.76, Hands: 40)
CO: 55.5 BB (VPIP: 44.12, PFR: 5.88, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 34)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♣ J♥

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 13 BB, MP calls 10 BB, BTN calls 10 BB

Flop: (39.5 BB, 3 players) K♣ J♦ A♣
Hero bets 24.5 BB, fold, fold

Hero wins 37 BB


I ended betting 66% pot with the intention of shutting down if a Q,T or club came on the turn and chose the 66% because I thought it would fold out some weaker Tx and Qx that may get sticky.

How would, you have played this hand?
Is my 66% flop bet alright/ is the decision behind it reasonable? I think sometime in these spots I might be too afraid of getting sucked out on and miss out on value, was this one of those spots?

As always your thoughts are much appreciated!!


EDS

Very tricky and interesting spot. There are a lot of ways to play this and I don't think any are strictly more correct than others. I think the range you are representing here either absolutely smashed this flop (AJ-AK, AA, KK, JJ) or was trying to squeeze and no longer wants any part of it (TT or lower, some weaker hands maybe depending on the style you are repping). Your options here are to make the honest bet and look to snipe MP having a strong enough ace or BTN having a good draw, or check and rep a hand that got drowned by that board.

I think I agree with your bet because checking at best will get you a MP bet and BTN call most of the time, at which point you are going to opt for a big re-raise and reveal how strong your hand is beyond any doubt. In the worst case they both check through and you run a very real risk of losing a lot of value. I also think much of the same range that would take aggression when you check to them would still be calling your C-bet anyway, especially in lower stakes, without offering them a chance to check the heavy draws that are comfortably inside their range.

As far as sizing, this is a soaking wet flop against two players, so I don't think it is too much. The only issue is that your range does connect very well with this flop, and while MP has a lot of aces that might stay, they're probably also afraid of having BTN behind them with any marginal hand like AT. However betting half pot is more likely to get an MP call and then price in BTN, which is a lot scarier for you on later streets.

Overall I think it is a fine play and I don't blame you for taking a more secure route over risking a cooler on later streets.

I don't mind the bet as its a nice size pot already. The only thing I wanted to comment on was a little bit of your reasoning. You said you bet 66% pot to fold out Qx and Tx. However, those are the hands you actually want to call. Remember, betting should accomplish something. You are never folding out a better hand in that spot (QT, AA,KK, QQ) and lucky for you QQ+ would have 4 bet preflop so you arent facing them. But back to the betting, the other object is to get worse hands to call. Qx and Tx are some of those hand (though again unlikely as they should not be calling the 3 bet pre.) I think i would have tried a 1/2 pot bet to still give them the wrong odds to call but also to not fold out the Ax hands that are in your opponents range. I do agree with the pot being 3-way that it does complicate you trying not to give good odds.

correctly played in the flop, you could not allow the flush draw or the straight draw to be completed, the only thing that I would have done differently is the raise in the pre-flop maybe it would have been a little lower the MP raise x2 and JJ is not my favorite hand it seems to me that 13BB was a very big bet, you were lucky to meet two players who called your 3 bet and you could have a good pot

On a board like this you absolutely have to fastplay, and when the pot is this big already, you dont need to go for a check-raise to make it a 2 street hand. So nice big C-bet and then simply jam most turns, if you get action. You essentially have the nuts here, since they would usually have 4-bet AA or KK, and if they can have QT, then they can have a million other hands as well, that flopped equity, and that you want to charge to try and suck out on you.

Its sound like, you were sad to not get action, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a large pot down uncontested on the flop, when you have a nutted but also vulnerable hand. Any club, T, Q, K or A on the turn or river could have spelled disaster for you, if someone just made a straight, flush or a better boat than yours.

Ye i like the large flop bet with it being so draw heavy if villain has 2 pair or AQ AT their likely just shoving vs our cbet. And if called you can just shove mos turns even on flush cards your going to have good equity and villain can still call a weaker range of hands.

Originally Posted by EarnDAStack

I was unsure what to do on this hand given how wet the flop was. I was unsure between betting and trying to get made pairs and draws to call and thinking that a lot of the hands that will be calling in the spot have pretty good equity against my trips and it will leave me with tough decisions on later streets. The hand being three ways made me even more unsure of what to do.


PokerStars - €0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 20.51, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 40)
SB: 100.5 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
Hero (BB): 157 BB
UTG: 113 BB (VPIP: 22.50, PFR: 17.50, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 40)
MP: 146 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 15.00, 3Bet Preflop: 11.76, Hands: 40)
CO: 55.5 BB (VPIP: 44.12, PFR: 5.88, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 34)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♣ J♥

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 13 BB, MP calls 10 BB, BTN calls 10 BB

Flop: (39.5 BB, 3 players) K♣ J♦ A♣
Hero bets 24.5 BB, fold, fold

Hero wins 37 BB


I ended betting 66% pot with the intention of shutting down if a Q,T or club came on the turn and chose the 66% because I thought it would fold out some weaker Tx and Qx that may get sticky.

How would, you have played this hand?
Is my 66% flop bet alright/ is the decision behind it reasonable? I think sometime in these spots I might be too afraid of getting sucked out on and miss out on value, was this one of those spots?

As always your thoughts are much appreciated!!


EDS

I think is really easy, you need to bet with your best hands. Specially if they are calling you with a draw. If you are ahead on the range, and other player is calling with draw, the bigger your bet the more you win on average. So about a draw don’t worry. Also, the only hand you are getting beat is by QT, but also you have outs for the nuts, with a full house or quads. So definitely is not a place to be afraid. Bet and get max value out of a Pair of Aces or a draw.

Well played in my opinion. I wouldn't try to get fancy here OOP in a 3 way, 3 bet pot. If it was heads up and we had reads on the V I could get behind sizing down flop to induce some action, but it's not.

You want Tx and Qx to get sticky you just want them to call with bad odda which they will. I would bet bigger on this spot since Ax are big parts of what people play so better chances to get called

I do not think that you were mistaken, this board is very dangerous, and if you allow the villains to easily see the turn, your hand may lose its strength.

I actually don't think I love the bigger bet here, which is contrary to most. I might come in with 15 BB here. Your set of jacks simply blocks too much of what hands will be willing to play a big pot against you(primarily KJ and AJ). And those 2 pair hands will give you the action you want on both a small bet or a big bet. The one hand you don't block, is QT. I guess maybe a hand like KQ one club or Q9/T9 clubs will continue on the big bet. All the weak Ax and KT type hands that you frankly want to continue...probably won't. Most turns will be pretty good. Pretty much anything besides Q or T is a wonderful turn and you can lay in a big turn bet. You can also get lucky and weak Ax suited can spike 2 pair and bury themselves.

Originally Posted by kkonicke

I actually don't think I love the bigger bet here, which is contrary to most. I might come in with 15 BB here. Your set of jacks simply blocks too much of what hands will be willing to play a big pot against you(primarily KJ and AJ). And those 2 pair hands will give you the action you want on both a small bet or a big bet. The one hand you don't block, is QT. I guess maybe a hand like KQ one club or Q9/T9 clubs will continue on the big bet. All the weak Ax and KT type hands that you frankly want to continue...probably won't. Most turns will be pretty good. Pretty much anything besides Q or T is a wonderful turn and you can lay in a big turn bet. You can also get lucky and weak Ax suited can spike 2 pair and bury themselves.

Its much more important to not block AX than JX. At least MP can have AK, since not everyone 4-bet with that hand, and they can both have AQ or AT, that flopped top pair and a gutshot. They are not going to fold any of those hands on the flop even to a big bet.

from what hands did you want to get the call?

Originally Posted by fundiver199

On a board like this you absolutely have to fastplay, and when the pot is this big already, you dont need to go for a check-raise to make it a 2 street hand. So nice big C-bet and then simply jam most turns, if you get action. You essentially have the nuts here, since they would usually have 4-bet AA or KK, and if they can have QT, then they can have a million other hands as well, that flopped equity, and that you want to charge to try and suck out on you.

Its sound like, you were sad to not get action, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a large pot down uncontested on the flop, when you have a nutted but also vulnerable hand. Any club, T, Q, K or A on the turn or river could have spelled disaster for you, if someone just made a straight, flush or a better boat than yours.

Given the flop I was more than happy to take it down on the flop as you said. I wouldn’t have minded a flop that got me paid more tho lol.

On this hand I was really unsure if betting was the right decision. If I had gotten called I really wouldn’t have known where I was in the hand going forward and as you said there were plenty of bad turn cards for me. I guess in general I was unsure if this was a spot I should be looking to build a pot or play it safe but saying it like that just sounds like I’m scared money.