$100NL hand flopped set.

tenbob

tenbob

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Dunno where to stop this hand, after lots of thought i figure id stop it on the turn. Wondering if check shoving any river is the play. Flop was weird, MP1 was c-betting lots and MP3 was position betting lots. Hence the flop check, also check for a little decption, didnt want my play to look too much like a set mine.

MP3 : 25/13/2
MP1 : 35/15/1

poker stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 9 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)
Hero (SB): $106.30
BB: $20.70
UTG: $104.10
UTG+1: $103.00
MP1: $42.00
MP2: $59.95
MP3: $111.15
CO: $114.05
BTN: $144.60
Preflop: Hero is dealt
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(9 Players)
2 folds, MP1 raises to $3.00, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $3.00, 2 folds, Hero calls $2.50, BB folds
Flop: ($10)
Kd.gif
5c.gif
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(3 Players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks
Turn: ($10)
Kd.gif
5c.gif
7s.gif
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(3 Players)
Hero bets $6.00, MP1 calls $6.00, MP3 raises to $15.00,

Hero ?? Wonders if he can tank and call, and check raise the river.
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

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I wouldn't. Not because I'm afraid of being drawn out on, the board looks harmless enough, but because MP3 seems primed for the picking. You could merely reraise to $45 or so, but unless he's got a monster he'll just call and put the breaks on the river, either calling or possibly folding. You may be more likely to stack him with one card to come than you would if the river is a brick. Let's not forget about MP1. He's waiting for something. I'd rather shake one of them loose now.
 
S

Sonic_x_Reducer

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You also have to be aware that 1 of them could have a higher set...it's not likely, but you want to maximize ur potential....but keep the pot reasonable since you dont have the "Nuts." It's also possible that either of them could to to the river looking for a backdoor flush. Keep it reasonable and if no scare card on the river made a nice value bet. If one of them comes over the top you have to think back...maybe he does have that higher set....hmmmmm.
 
J

joeeagles

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He's last to act and checks the flop, giving everyone a free card. On the turn he raises to a bet and a call. What hand does that? I think that's the most important question, because the closer you get to figuring out what he could have, the more chances you have to get the most value in this hand.

Would a weak K (KQ, KJ, KT) raise this? It doesn't make much sense checking the flop when last to act, then raising the turn with such a hand, but I guess it depends on player. I really doubt he has that but if that's the case, when you call his raise and then check the river, he'll check behind, so your strategy won't work.

If his weak K is Kx both spades, if he misses his flush, again I think he'll check behind on the river. Such a hand could explain his line so far. So would, maybe, As7s.

Could he have AK? He didn't 3bet PF. This is $100nl, I don't know if the average player in this level always 3bets AK, nor do I know if you have any reads on villain in this sense. Also, if you think he'd slowplay it on the flop. This is important IMO because AK will likely bet the river for value when you check to him, but I can help to think that it just seems too odd to be AK.

The only possible 2 pair on that board is K7. Could it be a flat call from MP3 with K7? With 4 players left to act? This also seems odd.

I think any medium pair that flat calls this PF would bet the flop when checked to, and it certainly wouldn't raise the turn after a bet and a call, so we should be able to safely exclude that type of hand. Any pair JJ+ would 3bet PF, so unless he's tricky (like flat calling with KK) those hands are also excluded.

Last possibility is a bluff. Against that, your line of calling then checking the river works best because he might fire again on the river.

A set bigger or smaller than yours plays itself pretty much so its pointless to talk about. We're discussing about getting value from hands that you're crushing up to this point.

The big issue is that, if you 4bet it now, say to $45, you're giving away that you have a strong hand and in most scenarios considered above he will likely fold. The only one that calls and maybe shoves is the Kx both spades, which, IMO, is also the most probable hand. So I'd raise it, even if it gives away the strength of my hand. In a certain way, the flat call does also, although, admittedly, not to the same extent. But the main reasoning to raise now is because it might be the last chance to get more from him.

I understand your argument that MP1 has been c-betting a lot and MP3 has been playing position, but because this pot is 3-way I think I'd lead out this flop. Not every player c-bets in 3-way pots and I think leading out is best because on such a board I doubt they would let you take the pot w/o at least 1 of them calling a flop bet, and you could even get raised if one has a strong K, which sets the stage for you to possibly call and the check/raise the river. It sucks to flop a big hand OOP rather than last to act but in multiway I believe leading out is always best, unless they are both very aggressive and you're absolutely certain they will fire away no matter what. It's true they could both fold to a $6 bet but I still think leading out is the better play. Just my 2c on that.
 
TheJace

TheJace

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I'd check the flop hoping for a check-raise as well, but I'd be raising and re-raising on the turn till either he folded or we were both all-in. I wouldn't wanna get my hand outdrawn on without making him pay for it. If you call and a spade comes on the river are you gonna fold here or call him down?
 
tenbob

tenbob

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** FLOP *** [Kd 5c 7s]
tenbob: checks
haverchuck22: checks
LukeTheFOrce: checks
*** TURN *** [Kd 5c 7s] [2s]
tenbob: bets $6
haverchuck22: calls $6
LukeTheFOrce: raises $9 to $15
tenbob: calls $9
haverchuck22: folds
*** RIVER *** [Kd 5c 7s 2s] [8c]
tenbob: checks
LukeTheFOrce: bets $18
tenbob: raises $70.30 to $88.30 and is all-in
LukeTheFOrce: calls $70.30
 
NineLions

NineLions

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I'm having a hard time putting him on a hand other than 77. At 25NL I could see 22/K2s/A7 calling preflop and now thinking they're good, or for that matter KK/AK played weirdly given his position and preflop/flop passive play, but I don't know how else he plays the flop, turn, and then calls your push unless he just flat out thinks you're bluffing with the push. If he does have 77 then on the flop he's waiting for someone to show interest but forgetting to play normally (position bet the flop as you expected).
 
J

joeeagles

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So what's the final result TB? It looks like I was wrong :) .

I'm telling you now though...if this idiot has anything less than 2 pair, like some crappy Kx hand, then I'm playing $100nl starting now!!!!! With such a hand I can understand (maybe?) his $18 river bet, but there is no way in hell he should call the shove, only an idiot would think he's ahead and that you're trying some kind of move.

What I say above doesn't account for the fact your image may be LAG, but that being the case then Kx should happily check behind after you called the turn raise and since its hardly a hand that should call a shove even from a LAG.

I'm going on and on...just put the dam results TB...lol.
 
J

joeeagles

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He had 22.

It all makes sense then. Set over set will play itself pretty much, or at least most times, unless villain is extremely passive. Checking the flop worked out good for you then TB, since he was set mining the whole way and likely would have folded his dueces to even a small bet.

In general though, in this situation, on the turn, I think the raise was the better play because his raise to $15 could have meant many things and the turn could be the last chance to get extra chips out of him if he doesn't improve. The line of flat calling his raise and then checking the river could potentially put you in a position where you can't squeeze anything else out of him. That's how I see it at least.

What was your thought process that made you play it in this fashion?
 
NineLions

NineLions

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Hmm, 22 I eliminated thinking 1) he called with position preflop but with the lowest pocket pair and at that point only one player in the pot, and 2) with a set and being a regular position bettor, he would have (should have?) made his standard position bet on the flop in order to not arouse suspicion.


Edit: nevermind point 2), I just realized he didn't have a set on the flop
 
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