$1000 NLHE. Full Ring (5/10): Special situation on the river

[gustav197poker]

Cash game in casino.
Table with 10 players.


SB: No information.
BB: No information.
UTG1: No information.
UTG2 (VILLAIN): $ 2300. Very tight player, has shown A-A; A-Qs from EP.
From late positions usually take advantage of wet boards to place large bets (about 70% of the pot) and remove all players from the hand.
But from early positions he plays very narrow ranges and most of the time he retires before the flop.
He is a respectful player with other players, but he often likes to discuss decisions made in the room, about particular situations at the table.
MP1: No information.
MP2: No information.
MP3: No information.
HJ: No information.
CO: No information.
BTN (HERO): $ 1800. Receive Ah-9s




Blinds: 5/10


PREFLOP:
UTG1: FOLD; UTG2: opens at $ 33; MP1-MP2-MP3-HJ-CO-SB-BB: FOLD; BTN (HERO): CALL.



JACKPOT: $ 81 (2 Players in hand)
FLOP: Kh- 9c- 9h


UTG2 (V): CBET $ 65 (Approximately 80% of the pot)
BTN (H): Increase to $ 150
UTG2: CALL.



JACKPOT: $ 381 (2 Players)
TURN: Kh- 9c- 9h Ad

UTG2 (V): CHECK.
BTN (H): CHECK.



JACKPOT: $ 381 (2 Players)
RIVER: Kh- 9c- 9h- Ad Ac


UTG2 (V): BET $ 320 (85% of the well)
BTN (H): 3BET $ 900
UTG2 (V): 4BET: ALL IN $ 1797



The jackpot is now at $ 3398 and it's HERO's turn.

These types of players make you doubt too much. Is that his style of play was always very closed and has always shown to have a good form. At least in alls the showdown that was discovered.
In this hand I have everything in my favor, but against this rival the doubt runs through me.
There is only one hand that beats me: AK.


What would you do in this situation if you were HERO?


Thanks for your answer.

 

[Poker_Mike]

Cash game in casino.
Table with 10 players.


SB: No information.
BB: No information.
UTG1: No information.
UTG2 (VILLAIN): $ 2300. Very tight player, has shown A-A; A-Qs from EP.
From late positions usually take advantage of wet boards to place large bets (about 70% of the pot) and remove all players from the hand.
But from early positions he plays very narrow ranges and most of the time he retires before the flop.
He is a respectful player with other players, but he often likes to discuss decisions made in the room, about particular situations at the table.
MP1: No information.
MP2: No information.
MP3: No information.
HJ: No information.
CO: No information.
BTN (HERO): $ 1800. Receive Ah-9s




Blinds: 5/10


PREFLOP:
UTG1: FOLD; UTG2: opens at $ 33; MP1-MP2-MP3-HJ-CO-SB-BB: FOLD; BTN (HERO): CALL.



JACKPOT: $ 81 (2 Players in hand)
FLOP: Kh- 9c- 9h


UTG2 (V): CBET $ 65 (Approximately 80% of the pot)
BTN (H): Increase to $ 150
UTG2: CALL.



JACKPOT: $ 381 (2 Players)
TURN: Kh- 9c- 9h Ad

UTG2 (V): CHECK.
BTN (H): CHECK.



JACKPOT: $ 381 (2 Players)
RIVER: Kh- 9c- 9h- Ad Ac


UTG2 (V): BET $ 320 (85% of the well)
BTN (H): 3BET $ 900
UTG2 (V): 4BET: ALL IN $ 1797



The jackpot is now at $ 3398 and it's HERO's turn.

These types of players make you doubt too much. Is that his style of play was always very closed and has always shown to have a good form. At least in alls the showdown that was discovered.
In this hand I have everything in my favor, but against this rival the doubt runs through me.
There is only one hand that beats me: AK.


What would you do in this situation if you were HERO?


Thanks for your answer.

I'm calling here.

Very likely you are chopping the pot. Or - even better you win it with your opponent having air…..but not this player OOP - the way you've read his behavior. I think he has an Ax for the chop.


I'm paying AK here just because of the unlikelihood and the strength of my hand and the fact that I'm chopping any other ace and winning against anything else.

I mean KK also makes sense for him - and you win if he has that hand. But also kind of "unlikely".

I hope I'm not wrong because I would have to dig into my wallet for more cash!

Good luck !

 

[feisas7991]

OMFG. I would shit my pants 9 times on the river. To be honest i have no definitive answer for you. This situation basically is as hard as it gets in the poker.
Being said that we are definitely facing another full house. Now we want to make some big decisions. As @PokerMike said it is quite likely that opponenet could play KK that way (K9 if he opens that from early position basically is K9 of spades) though unlikely that anyone would jam KK on the river.
Im out of ideas. The more i think the more i like the call (still absolutely sucks as we block all the bluffs as well as all the value hands). I imagine doug polk would cover this hand brilliantly, much better than in our abilities.
I think we are supposed to get stacked even if we see very often AK .
Good Luck, looking forward for more point of views.

 

[finaltable1]

Cash game in casino.
Table with 10 players.


SB: No information.
BB: No information.
UTG1: No information.
UTG2 (VILLAIN): $ 2300. Very tight player, has shown A-A; A-Qs from EP.
From late positions usually take advantage of wet boards to place large bets (about 70% of the pot) and remove all players from the hand.
But from early positions he plays very narrow ranges and most of the time he retires before the flop.
He is a respectful player with other players, but he often likes to discuss decisions made in the room, about particular situations at the table.
MP1: No information.
MP2: No information.
MP3: No information.
HJ: No information.
CO: No information.
BTN (HERO): $ 1800. Receive Ah-9s




Blinds: 5/10


PREFLOP:
UTG1: FOLD; UTG2: opens at $ 33; MP1-MP2-MP3-HJ-CO-SB-BB: FOLD; BTN (HERO): CALL.



JACKPOT: $ 81 (2 Players in hand)
FLOP: Kh- 9c- 9h


UTG2 (V): CBET $ 65 (Approximately 80% of the pot)
BTN (H): Increase to $ 150
UTG2: CALL.



JACKPOT: $ 381 (2 Players)
TURN: Kh- 9c- 9h Ad

UTG2 (V): CHECK.
BTN (H): CHECK.



JACKPOT: $ 381 (2 Players)
RIVER: Kh- 9c- 9h- Ad Ac


UTG2 (V): BET $ 320 (85% of the well)
BTN (H): 3BET $ 900
UTG2 (V): 4BET: ALL IN $ 1797



The jackpot is now at $ 3398 and it's HERO's turn.

These types of players make you doubt too much. Is that his style of play was always very closed and has always shown to have a good form. At least in alls the showdown that was discovered.
In this hand I have everything in my favor, but against this rival the doubt runs through me.
There is only one hand that beats me: AK.


What would you do in this situation if you were HERO?


Thanks for your answer.

Personally, in live games, with stack like 180BB I will always fold such junk like A9o, doesn't matter what my position is. Flop-river like this are miracles.

but you've asked a different question.

Yes, it's always a call. You should be asking yourself such questions before 3betting the river with additional $900. Let's check the facts, You've already invested 60% of your stack, You're blocking quads and you have the second nut hand, ok you're against tight opponent who showed strenght, only checked the turn. Why he checks the turn? Scared of set of Nines having AK? OR he's holding KK and flopped a boat and since you're 3betting him in position = he's expecting you to bet the turn, so he can 3bet you back? In general, since he's respectful player there and most probably a regular, i think that most likely he will be playing like this with hands like any A; any 9; KQ, JK, KK, and ofc AK, but since you're saying that he's a tight player and he opened $33 from utg2 I will cut his range to AT+ and KQ-KK.

Why Am I thinking about this? It's always a call, you had to decide this before 3betting extra $900, if you're 3betting half of your initial stack on the river in a cash game, it makes you commited to that pot infront of you, together with that second nut hand you're holding. That's why it's better to fold such trash hands like A9os pre-flop, cause 9 is always a terrible kicker, together with no strand and flush options for these 2 cards together...and even tho I still hope that you've won that hand, I have a feeling that you've been punished there for playing trash. You would write this post in case if it was a really fantastic bad beat or in case if it was a really stupid bluff.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

There is just really no excuse for flatting this hand pre. You've explicitly stated in the opponent info that the guy is straightforward and quite value heavy in early position. Even if he WASN'T, this would be a pretty junk hand to flat in this spot.

But whatever, we did it, we're here now.

We flop gin. Nice. He cbets his standard and we raise. I think this is fine, but probably unnecessary. We could also just flat. But since there's a FD on board and we can raise some of them, this is probably fine. It definitely sucks that we hold the Ah here though, because it means the villain can't have it. He can put us on the NFD I suppose, but he also never HAS the NFD himself.

Whatever, he calls.

His range now is likely VERY heavily weighted toward the following hands (based on your original description of him):
- KQs
- AK
- AA

And a LITTLE bit of KK. It's discounted as he may not even cbet flop with it, or not all the time, but I suppose it could be in there. But most people would snap slowplay this flop, or at least not bet so large.

Turn is an A. We turn a boat, 9's full of A's! Usually a good thing, but let's see what we think here.

KQs (3 combos): should kill most our action since our most likely bluff is AXhh.
AK (6 combos): great for us, probably willing to put a lot of chips in still, but he still SHOULD be wary of a 9.
AA: (1 combo): we lose to, but only 1 combo at least.
KK (3 combos, but discounted): were behind, now we're ahead, and shouldn't be afraid of K9 or A9 since if we have those, we should have a lot of other suited 9x.

Overall a good card, and over half his range we are ahead of and should still be willing to give us action! Awesome! Okay, so he checks, so we should be the crap out of i--- oh we checked. Whyyyyyy??? I get our hand doesn't seem "vulnerable" now, but again he can't even have FD's really, so what are we hoping him to have here that will "catch up" and then pay us? The 1 combo of QJhh? Meh.

Ok, whatever. We checked it back. River is an A. Huh... okay we have a better boat now, but... is this a good thing?

KQs (3 combos): still probably won't pay us. even less likely now.
AK (3 combos): beats us now. damnit.
AA (no combos): well this one doesn't exist anymore, so that's cool, but it was only 1 combo before anyway.
KK (3 combos, but discounted): goes from kings full of 9's to kings full of aces, where any SINGLE ace beats him... not paying us much if at all, probably.

Well, this isn't good, but if he checks we can just bet small maybe? And then w--- wait a minute did he just lead almost pot???

Yeah this isn't good. Maybe he bets AK AND KK (equal combos, but remember KK is almost certainly discounted due to his flop cbet from earlier), which I guess isn't terrible, as we're getting over 2 to 1 on a call, but we CANNOT raise here. What are we actually hoping for? That we've soul read him as "not having AK," and KK just makes an absurd crying call?

The river is an absolute slam dunk just call imo. The villain has no 9x in his preflop range besides 99 so he doesn't get to this river with a hand we beat AND will put additional money in. Raising here is lighting money on fire.

And frankly, when we face the 3bet (our river raise is the 2bet, not the 3bet), we shouldn't even like it at all. It's basically impossible for him to think KK is good here facing this action, so we now have to ask if we are ever even chopping or winning here. I think the answer is no. His whole range SHOULD be AK. If he thinks KK is good enough to lead/3bet here then he's horrible, or thinks WE'RE horrible and would always play a single 9x like this. Which seems doubtful.

Sigh, kick your chair over, do what you gotta do, but then fold the hand. We just can't be ahead here.

 

[gustav197poker]

There is just really no excuse for flatting this hand pre. You've explicitly stated in the opponent info that the guy is straightforward and quite value heavy in early position. Even if he WASN'T, this would be a pretty junk hand to flat in this spot.

But whatever, we did it, we're here now.

We flop gin. Nice. He cbets his standard and we raise. I think this is fine, but probably unnecessary. We could also just flat. But since there's a FD on board and we can raise some of them, this is probably fine. It definitely sucks that we hold the Ah here though, because it means the villain can't have it. He can put us on the NFD I suppose, but he also never HAS the NFD himself.

Whatever, he calls.

His range now is likely VERY heavily weighted toward the following hands (based on your original description of him):
- KQs
- AK
- AA

And a LITTLE bit of KK. It's discounted as he may not even cbet flop with it, or not all the time, but I suppose it could be in there. But most people would snap slowplay this flop, or at least not bet so large.

Turn is an A. We turn a boat, 9's full of A's! Usually a good thing, but let's see what we think here.

KQs (3 combos): should kill most our action since our most likely bluff is AXhh.
AK (6 combos): great for us, probably willing to put a lot of chips in still, but he still SHOULD be wary of a 9.
AA: (1 combo): we lose to, but only 1 combo at least.
KK (3 combos, but discounted): were behind, now we're ahead, and shouldn't be afraid of K9 or A9 since if we have those, we should have a lot of other suited 9x.

Overall a good card, and over half his range we are ahead of and should still be willing to give us action! Awesome! Okay, so he checks, so we should be the crap out of i--- oh we checked. Whyyyyyy??? I get our hand doesn't seem "vulnerable" now, but again he can't even have FD's really, so what are we hoping him to have here that will "catch up" and then pay us? The 1 combo of QJhh? Meh.

Ok, whatever. We checked it back. River is an A. Huh... okay we have a better boat now, but... is this a good thing?

KQs (3 combos): still probably won't pay us. even less likely now.
AK (3 combos): beats us now. damnit.
AA (no combos): well this one doesn't exist anymore, so that's cool, but it was only 1 combo before anyway.
KK (3 combos, but discounted): goes from kings full of 9's to kings full of aces, where any SINGLE ace beats him... not paying us much if at all, probably.

Well, this isn't good, but if he checks we can just bet small maybe? And then w--- wait a minute did he just lead almost pot???

Yeah this isn't good. Maybe he bets AK AND KK (equal combos, but remember KK is almost certainly discounted due to his flop cbet from earlier), which I guess isn't terrible, as we're getting over 2 to 1 on a call, but we CANNOT raise here. What are we actually hoping for? That we've soul read him as "not having AK," and KK just makes an absurd crying call?

The river is an absolute slam dunk just call imo. The villain has no 9x in his preflop range besides 99 so he doesn't get to this river with a hand we beat AND will put additional money in. Raising here is lighting money on fire.

And frankly, when we face the 3bet (our river raise is the 2bet, not the 3bet), we shouldn't even like it at all. It's basically impossible for him to think KK is good here facing this action, so we now have to ask if we are ever even chopping or winning here. I think the answer is no. His whole range SHOULD be AK. If he thinks KK is good enough to lead/3bet here then he's horrible, or thinks WE'RE horrible and would always play a single 9x like this. Which seems doubtful.

Sigh, kick your chair over, do what you gotta do, but then fold the hand. We just can't be ahead here.

A-9 is a marginal hand, but played from CO or BTN does not turn out to be as junk as it seems. Especially if we can isolate ourselves with someone, we can afford to see the flop if the opening is not very large.
A-9 is a combination that exceeds approximately 80% of the possible combinations of the deck. If we subtract the strength of 9 as a kicker (which is horrible), which is approximately half of the values, we have a net force of approximately 40%.
True, it is of little value, but it is worth speculating when only UTG2 remains.
I agree that I do not include KK in its range, since the set would seek more protection on this board.
I honestly thought that I could carry pocket aces, but on the turn I was calmer, since A. appeared. That reduced the possibility of the villain having that pocket.
I checked the turn, because I didn't want to remove it from my hand so easily.
What could the villain take?
A K-9 did not fit much in its range, besides I block FD with my Ah.
Nor does it favor the A that appears on the turn, but if he had an A, he would seek to exploit it more now.
Being the villain a solid player did not understand his check.
He wanted me to attack and then he would get stuck? I saw it unlikely, since his bet on the flop made me block a hand and now we are still alive.
At that time I thought he could carry an A in his hand, but he didn't want to take a risk with the board and wait until the river to evaluate.
In the same way, I wanted to show the villain that I was not going to take a risk on this board either, that perhaps gave me a greater margin of credibility to my lanterns in the river, to try to catch me.
On the river when the ace bends, I feel like I'm dying. The worst card in the deck that could touch me.
But later when the bet I start thinking. If we discount the kings initially and to this we add that the villain checks the turn having semi straight and with table aces. Is this situation really so bad?
After that reasoning my brain clouded completely and I immediately thought of a super lantern of the villain. A possible tie.
I had already put about half of my stack in the boat, so I had good pasta to go to my quiet house.
Then it came to my mind the times that the villain pulled us by the hand with his big bets on some flops.
I was thinking about the things I was going to do if I lost this hand. I prayed to all the gods of Olympus and then I made CALL.
The villain showed his hand: A-Q off.
I felt much more relieved but not happy.
Greetings.