teh_colonel_saigon
Rock Star
Silver Level
Well what was your plan once the flop came? There are 4 other players in this hand, most of whom have position on you. The pot is around 15 and you only have 42 left.
The check raise line should look strong, but after 3 players call an 11bb bet, you are only raising them 31 into a pot that is 48 so you might not get too many folds.
But you are actually ahead of a lot of hands like JT - AT (not of diamonds), around 55% to 45%. Every one looks pretty passive and not particularly strong here. So you are going to risk 42 to win 48, and with at least one caller you probably are getting decent odds to run the cards (against sets you have 25% equity, against AdTd you only have ~20%).
Calling is also break even, you are getting 48:11 which gives you 18% to continue...
All-in-all its a marginal play. When you consider that these (I'm assuming) loose-passives might be calling with a lot of diamonds here, you probably are losing some outs as well.
Get a full stack, wait for a better spot.
The check raise line should look strong, but after 3 players call an 11bb bet, you are only raising them 31 into a pot that is 48 so you might not get too many folds.
But you are actually ahead of a lot of hands like JT - AT (not of diamonds), around 55% to 45%. Every one looks pretty passive and not particularly strong here. So you are going to risk 42 to win 48, and with at least one caller you probably are getting decent odds to run the cards (against sets you have 25% equity, against AdTd you only have ~20%).
Calling is also break even, you are getting 48:11 which gives you 18% to continue...
All-in-all its a marginal play. When you consider that these (I'm assuming) loose-passives might be calling with a lot of diamonds here, you probably are losing some outs as well.
Get a full stack, wait for a better spot.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
The whole point in betting or raising with draws is to get folds, and there is just no way, you are getting 3 people to fold, when you have so little stack left behind. If everyone were playing correct ranges, this might be a fold, but given its a low stakes live game, I think, we can justify making the call here and basically play the hand as a one card draw to the second nuts. No diamond on the turn, and we dont invest another dime in this spot.
K
kkonicke
Rock Star
Silver Level
I tend to agree, I think I like a call here instead of a jam. Most 10s are calling, and some of the callers behind could have flush draws or sets as there isn't much else to have...and that board isn't overly concerning that a set could just call and let MP bet their entire stack away. Sets are obviously bad news, as are flush draws that take outs away(also potentially better flush draw exists). I either call or fold this spot, and for sure fold turn to any substantial bets(assuming you don't hit diamond).
G
gustav197poker
Legend
Bronze Level
He was committed to his battery because if it continued in his hand he had to put approximately 1/4 of his battery in the boat. It would be more profitable to get all the capital out of your hand if you had AJ, but you had KJ, which is a bad hand to play from MP.
I think the fold would be reasonable from that position, because the MP bet can induce a blockage in your color, since any Axd would beat you.
In addition, in this case it is exposed to hands for a value that is probably very strong.
They are likely to see aces, kings and reynas in the players who entered the boat.
With more active players, it is more likely that someone has an Ax that defeats you in color and that you also face strong hands.
I would retire in this case.
Greetings.
I think the fold would be reasonable from that position, because the MP bet can induce a blockage in your color, since any Axd would beat you.
In addition, in this case it is exposed to hands for a value that is probably very strong.
They are likely to see aces, kings and reynas in the players who entered the boat.
With more active players, it is more likely that someone has an Ax that defeats you in color and that you also face strong hands.
I would retire in this case.
Greetings.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
For sure its bad news, if someone has the nut flush draw. But in a low stakes live game like this, I think, they can also have a lot of other suited hands, where we are on the good side of the cooler situation, if the flush gets there. So I think, its ok to call with the K high draw, but if we get down to Q high or lower, its probably a fold.
G
gustav197poker
Legend
Bronze Level
fundiver199: I personally do not like to go preflop with KJ especially when there are several players in front of me as is the case. So I would have inclined to fold in preflop.
KJ plays more comfortable in late positions.
There is also little stack behind, I prefer to isolate myself with few players.
The more players left in the hand the possibility that someone has the color thread increases, and at the same time if I fight for my odds at least I prefer to be in the strongest part of my range.
I prefer to take a risk from another place, although it is acceptable to take the risk here but I would not.
KJ plays more comfortable in late positions.
There is also little stack behind, I prefer to isolate myself with few players.
The more players left in the hand the possibility that someone has the color thread increases, and at the same time if I fight for my odds at least I prefer to be in the strongest part of my range.
I prefer to take a risk from another place, although it is acceptable to take the risk here but I would not.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Hero was first to enter the pot and then got called by everyone behind except SB. With 5 players left to act behind you, I think, KJs is a very standard open. I would not mind folding KJo, if its normal for the game, that people call this much. Opening to a larger size is also an option, which many people use in overly loose live games.
G
gustav197poker
Legend
Bronze Level
Having several players behind me makes me uncomfortable to play a KJ when I have little stack. If my battery were bigger, I might play more open.
And if it were a very tight table to play, you might fold preflop anyway.
And if it were a very tight table to play, you might fold preflop anyway.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Thats another issue, and I do not really recommend starting a cash game hand with only 45BB. If Hero had a full 100BB stack, I think, this is a fairly trivial call on the flop with much better implied odds, when we improve.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
To those saying we "can't get 3 players to fold with this stack." Maybe this is true, but against say a top pair hand, we have roughly 50% of the equity (47% even if they have say JT), and against JT and KT we have almost 40% equity still.
So that's not really the concern. The concern imo is if someone has the NFD and someone has a pair and an over. Then we are in really dire straits. A pair and a FD is also a concern I suppose.
The thing is, I just don't know how likely that is. I don't really have a problem getting this in here as a default at these stakes. Even if we never get all 3 to fold, that's generally fine given our equity vs a reasonable stack off range imo.
That being said, obviously I'd prefer to see hero buying in deeper, and having a little more optionality on a flop like this in the first place.
So that's not really the concern. The concern imo is if someone has the NFD and someone has a pair and an over. Then we are in really dire straits. A pair and a FD is also a concern I suppose.
The thing is, I just don't know how likely that is. I don't really have a problem getting this in here as a default at these stakes. Even if we never get all 3 to fold, that's generally fine given our equity vs a reasonable stack off range imo.
That being said, obviously I'd prefer to see hero buying in deeper, and having a little more optionality on a flop like this in the first place.