$100 NLHE 6-max: Should I have raised on the river?

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gustav197poker

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From SB I face a recreational player located in the BTN. The villain made a very big opening and that gave me several doubts on the river. Is it a manic move on my part to increase this river?
Thanks for the answers, greetings.
The hand: https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/4qq2Ezm
 
deyvsonflp

deyvsonflp

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I liked the lead turn. On the river, I think only the call is ok. You have a low kicker, you may be losing to two pair or higher A. I wouldn't bet on the river for that. GL
 
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fundiver199

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Preflop
Not crazy about calling from SB in general and especially not against a large raise. I prefer to defend by 3-betting even against rec players, and unless his PFR was like absurdly low, any suited ace would be a 3-bet for me in this situation.

Flop
Checking is fine, and we are not sad, he checked back. We probably have the best hand and are ready to go for some value on the turn and river.

Turn
Definitely betting for value but I prefer a smaller size. I sense, that maybe you got confused here and thought, that picking up a flushdraw completely changed your hand. But that is not the case. After he checked back the turn, you likely have the best hand already, so you dont need to either improve or make him fold. Instead you are looking for some light value, and its reasonable to go for 2 streets, which you should plan already now. But not 2 streets of overbetting.

River
The hand is sort of confusing now because of your turn sizing, so I guess, check-calling is fine. Check-raising would be a massive overplay. Your line probably confused him and ended up working, because he might have put you on a rivered Q rather than an A.
 
Aballinamion

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Line: Hero Calling OTR

From SB I face a recreational player located in the BTN. The villain made a very big opening and that gave me several doubts on the river. Is it a manic move on my part to increase this river?
Thanks for the answers, greetings.
The hand: https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/4qq2Ezm

Good morning dear friend, thanks for sharing with us. Let me try to help you.

The Preflop

Wow! Giving this huge sizing for the BTN, I would never be calling down with anything.
Very rare we are calling from the SB and we gotta have very specific reasons for so doing: BTN must be a donkey-whale and BB as well.
Even so I am not a great fan of calling a raise of 3.5x OOP: this polarization already means BTN is a weak player for itself.
Regulars are never opening this huge, no matter what at 100 NLHE.

the postflop

The Flop

Checking here seems fine. What is really fishy is BTN to be checking behind here, knowing that SB calls with a capped medium-weak range of hands, lol! :D
We could expect some 1/2 pot bet or 1/2 pot bet to make SB to fold all of its trashes, but checking on this specific flop is way too much.
One more thing: when BTN checks behind OTF, BTN cappes its range for weak hands and value hands that got scared of the ace OTF, so we are starting to bluff a lot of turns and rivers when our hand does improve. ;)

The Turn

Our hand does improve and given the fact that BTN checked flop we can be stabbing it, because now our equity is very good to hit a Flush Nuts, trips or Two Pair. We also believe BTN would have betted all of its aces OTF, so there is nothing to be worried around.
BTN calls with what??? Strong value hands that do not feel secure enough to be raising, but once again, BTN cappes its range for certain groups of hands, because we believe Two Pair and Sets would be raising this turn on a very high frequency for protection, so we automatically exclude combos of A4, A7, AT (on which we are blocking the ace), 44, TT, 77, we don't see these hands calling huge bet OTT to give a free river for SB and be forced to be either leaving or jamming way behind.
So, BTN has no aces, no two pair, no sets, what the heck BTN is calling down?

The River

It comes a Queen and we know that BTN doesn't have AQ, because AQ would not be checking behind OTF. AA the same story. The only hand that could be a concern for us now is some QQ that it decided to check behind OTF because of the ace, even so, just a few lost combos.
BTN bets very small giving us odds to pay with all of our aces, when we do call from the SB preflop, we are paying 12 for a pot of almost 50, so if BTN displays some AQ, AJ or AK good for its slow play, but we believe that in general BTN (FISH) will be overplaying some strong value hand, because this is what all the fishes do.
We are never raising the river in situations like this, where we do flat from the SB a polarized sizing. If we do jam here BTN can easily fold all of its dominated hands and only pays us when we are nailed. The calling here seems optimal because we assume we are not winning any kind of spot, a 100% of times. Well played!

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
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Aballinamion

Aballinamion

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Good morning dear friend, thanks for sharing with us. Let me try to help you.

The Preflop

Wow! Giving this huge sizing for the BTN, I would never be calling down with anything.
Very rare we are calling from the SB and we gotta have very specific reasons for so doing: BTN must be a donkey-whale and BB as well.
Even so I am not a great fan of calling a raise of 3.5x OOP: this polarization already means BTN is a weak player for itself.
Regulars are never opening this huge, no matter what at 100 NLHE.

the postflop

The Flop

Checking here seems fine. What is really fishy is BTN to be checking behind here, knowing that SB calls with a capped medium-weak range of hands, lol! :D
We could expect some 1/2 pot bet or 1/2 pot bet to make SB to fold all of its trashes, but checking on this specific flop is way too much.
One more thing: when BTN checks behind OTF, BTN cappes its range for weak hands and value hands that got scared of the ace OTF, so we are starting to bluff a lot of turns and rivers when our hand does improve. ;)

The Turn

Our hand does improve and given the fact that BTN checked flop we can be stabbing it, because now our equity is very good to hit a Flush Nuts, trips or Two Pair. We also believe BTN would have betted all of its aces OTF, so there is nothing to be worried around.
BTN calls with what??? Strong value hands that do not feel secure enough to be raising, but once again, BTN cappes its range for certain groups of hands, because we believe Two Pair and Sets would be raising this turn on a very high frequency for protection, so we automatically exclude combos of A4, A7, AT (on which we are blocking the ace), 44, TT, 77, we don't see these hands calling huge bet OTT to give a free river for SB and be forced to be either leaving or jamming way behind.
So, BTN has no aces, no two pair, no sets, what the heck BTN is calling down?

The River

It comes a Queen and we know that BTN doesn't have AQ, because AQ would not be checking behind OTF. AA the same story. The only hand that could be a concern for us now is some QQ that it decided to check behind OTF because of the ace, even so, just a few lost combos.
BTN bets very small giving us odds to pay with all of our aces, when we do call from the SB preflop, we are paying 12 for a pot of almost 50, so if BTN displays some AQ, AJ or AK good for its slow play, but we believe that in general BTN (FISH) will be overplaying some strong value hand, because this is what all the fishes do.
We are never raising the river in situations like this, where we do flat from the SB a polarized sizing. If we do jam here BTN can easily fold all of its dominated hands and only pays us when we are nailed. The calling here seems optimal because we assume we are not winning any kind of spot, a 100% of times. Well played!

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

Not scientific or theoretically proven, but every day I got myself more inclined to believe that from 20 NLHE and higher stakes, til 200 NLHE, on-line poker, fishes are polarizing their preflop ranges 90% of times for heavy value and 10% of times for "bluffs" that aren't air itself but hands with good playability, specially IP, such as 76s, 32s, A2s, etc.
What do u think about that, Gustav, now that you are playing lower limits such as 100 NLHE?
Because it is crystal clear to me that a fish is raising 3.5x IP with KK, but this fish never raises so high with KJ, for instance. What are your thoughts on that? Thanks in advance.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
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gustav197poker

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Good morning dear friend, thanks for sharing with us. Let me try to help you.

The Preflop

Wow! Giving this huge sizing for the BTN, I would never be calling down with anything.
Very rare we are calling from the SB and we gotta have very specific reasons for so doing: BTN must be a donkey-whale and BB as well.
Even so I am not a great fan of calling a raise of 3.5x OOP: this polarization already means BTN is a weak player for itself.
Regulars are never opening this huge, no matter what at 100 NLHE.

the postflop

The Flop

Checking here seems fine. What is really fishy is BTN to be checking behind here, knowing that SB calls with a capped medium-weak range of hands, lol! :D
We could expect some 1/2 pot bet or 1/2 pot bet to make SB to fold all of its trashes, but checking on this specific flop is way too much.
One more thing: when BTN checks behind OTF, BTN cappes its range for weak hands and value hands that got scared of the ace OTF, so we are starting to bluff a lot of turns and rivers when our hand does improve. ;)

The Turn

Our hand does improve and given the fact that BTN checked flop we can be stabbing it, because now our equity is very good to hit a Flush Nuts, trips or Two Pair. We also believe BTN would have betted all of its aces OTF, so there is nothing to be worried around.
BTN calls with what??? Strong value hands that do not feel secure enough to be raising, but once again, BTN cappes its range for certain groups of hands, because we believe Two Pair and Sets would be raising this turn on a very high frequency for protection, so we automatically exclude combos of A4, A7, AT (on which we are blocking the ace), 44, TT, 77, we don't see these hands calling huge bet OTT to give a free river for SB and be forced to be either leaving or jamming way behind.
So, BTN has no aces, no two pair, no sets, what the heck BTN is calling down?

The River

It comes a Queen and we know that BTN doesn't have AQ, because AQ would not be checking behind OTF. AA the same story. The only hand that could be a concern for us now is some QQ that it decided to check behind OTF because of the ace, even so, just a few lost combos.
BTN bets very small giving us odds to pay with all of our aces, when we do call from the SB preflop, we are paying 12 for a pot of almost 50, so if BTN displays some AQ, AJ or AK good for its slow play, but we believe that in general BTN (FISH) will be overplaying some strong value hand, because this is what all the fishes do.
We are never raising the river in situations like this, where we do flat from the SB a polarized sizing. If we do jam here BTN can easily fold all of its dominated hands and only pays us when we are nailed. The calling here seems optimal because we assume we are not winning any kind of spot, a 100% of times. Well played!

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa


You are absolutely right friend, I shouldn't have called preflop here. Maybe I did it because it was deeper in the stack, but now that I see it this was a very strong hand. Fully predictable. Thank you very much Carlos! I take note of each of your tips. Have a good day friend.
 
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kubistok

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Preflop
Not crazy about calling from SB in general and especially not against a large raise. I prefer to defend by 3-betting even against rec players, and unless his PFR was like absurdly low, any suited ace would be a 3-bet for me in this situation.

Flop
Checking is fine, and we are not sad, he checked back. We probably have the best hand and are ready to go for some value on the turn and river.

Turn
Definitely betting for value but I prefer a smaller size. I sense, that maybe you got confused here and thought, that picking up a flushdraw completely changed your hand. But that is not the case. After he checked back the turn, you likely have the best hand already, so you dont need to either improve or make him fold. Instead you are looking for some light value, and its reasonable to go for 2 streets, which you should plan already now. But not 2 streets of overbetting.

River
The hand is sort of confusing now because of your turn sizing, so I guess, check-calling is fine. Check-raising would be a massive overplay. Your line probably confused him and ended up working, because he might have put you on a rivered Q rather than an A.
I think so - check-calling on river is good choice
 
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ibetmyho

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I think you should value bet river yourself. Once the flop is checked back Villain's range is going to be hands with showdown value such as 10x and weak Ax so you should just go for 2 streets of value.
 
Dkerridge14

Dkerridge14

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From SB I face a recreational player located in the BTN. The villain made a very big opening and that gave me several doubts on the river. Is it a manic move on my part to increase this river?
Thanks for the answers, greetings.
The hand: https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/4qq2Ezm


I personally think fine and probably would have got a bit more value from a check raise on the turn. Finding out if the opponent is willing to shoot because their range includes plenty of flushes which you have them dominated and you will be able to bomb the river when you do hit but hey what do I know haha not only that and looking at that hand would of worked because pairs are going to protect and when you raise you are under repping your ace massively so any time you do bomb the river if your villain is calling light whit their 2nd pair hand you get called on the river if your flush misses. So the only hands you get called on the river will be the sweaty trips or luck box 2 pairs which straight draws are more unlikely due your blocker
 
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