$100 NLHE 6-max: Line check, I think turn is a jam here. Too passive

C

c0rnBr34d

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PokerStars - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 100 BB - VP 22 / PR 16 / 3B 8 / AF 2 (933 hands) - Loves huge sizings
CO: 312.22 BB
Hero (BTN): 107.08 BB - VP 16 / PR 16 / 3B 25 / AF inf (19 Hands)
SB: 149.43 BB
BB: 195.73 BB - VP 88 / PR 25 / 3B 0 / AF 2 (17 Hands)
UTG: 126.47 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J:club: K:club:

fold, MP raises to 3.5 BB, CO calls 3.5 BB, Hero calls 3.5 BB, fold, BB calls 2.5 BB

Flop: (14.5 BB, 4 players) J:heart: 4:spade: T:diamond:
BB bets 13.78 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 13.78 BB

Turn: (42.06 BB, 2 players) K:diamond:
BB bets 39.96 BB, Hero calls 39.96 BB

River: (121.98 BB, 2 players) 2:club:
BB bets 138.49 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 49.84 BB and is all-in

Pre: No real reads but this guy has a PFR raising range so I'm assuming he has 3 bets as well. I like to play pots in position with PFR because they consistently bomb it for 80%+, even pre is large here for an open. Once CO calls I'm not crazy about the squeeze although I should probably 3 bet here at some frequency. I've also already 3B a few times in my short time at the table so I may get less respect. We decide to try to see a cheap flop and flat.

Flop: 4 ways to the flop and it doesn't get much better than this. Instead of PFR bombing it, BB beats him to the punch and we get to call closing the action with TPSK. Seems standard.

Turn: This is where it goes off the rails. We improve but still aren't nutted. Sucks that the Q9 got there (some AQ, TT, and 44 as well) but vs an uknown with these stats I'm not ready to fold yet. If we are going to continue here I think it has to be for a jam since we are committed if we call and can't really fold to any action. We are letting flushes and straights get there and paying them off while letting missed draws x/f.

River: Doesn't change much so we call it off.

Thoughts?
 
F

fundiver199

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First of all finding a VPIP 88 at stakes this high is just amazing. I guess, only americans are allowed to play on that site? Damn... LOL. Ok but on to the hand.

Preflop
An additional reason for just calling is to get that huge whale from the blinds involved. Bart Hanson ranted about this in one of his videos saying, that "these overly aggressive preflop guys just suck the winrate out of everything", and he has a point. If you 3-bet here, you help the whale make a correct laydown, but you hurt both yourself and the other two guys.

Flop
Yeah I am calling here with top pair second kicker. The whale can certainly be donking with worse.

Turn
KJ on KJT is one of my least favourite spots, because AQ is such a common hand in peoples range. Here AQ is probably a little discounted, because he donked out on the flop, and will he really do that for this size into 3 people with just a gutterball and two overs? Maybe not. But Q9 certainly makes sense, and since he play almost anything, he can have all 16 combos. Even so I cant fold here to someone, who is playing essentially the entire deck. I also agree, that there is no point in letting the last card roll of, so get it in and hope to run good :)
 
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Sidetracked

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With that guy in the blinds, and your specific hand (which plays well multi way with the suitedness and connectedness) your flat vs squeezing is good.

Once BB donks flop and everyone else goes away, I'm happily playing for stacks with him, and given his huge sizing on flop and turn, I agree with you and think jamming the turn is perhaps your best play.
 
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300HPGOD

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I think you should be calling with this pre flop as others have said. Maybe against other opponents raising there is fine but with suited paint and in position I am rarely feeling bad about seeing a flop. Not sure how much one of the blinds will raise which could be problematic but I would just take that chance and call here hoping to see a multi way flop in position with a hand that flops well.

When the BB donk leads here I rarely think they are doing it with a draw. I automatically would put them on a top pair or two pair hand. We have a Jack which blocks them a bit from having Jx themselves. You are not supposed to do this but my mind would really lead me to a hand like 104 here for the villain (this would be before all other action comes out). I just dont think many will donk lead (especially that big) with just 4x here. 104 fits their VPIP as well, although Jx is still possible and so is a set of fours although I would doubt they would lead that big to what could lead to a lot of folds. I would be thinking though that it is a made hand with at least a pair. I would be calling here but would be weary that I could be losing easily.

The turn brings us two pair and another large bet from villain. I totally agree that we are not folding this now or on the river so it is just best to get it in here and hope we are going against Jx, or 104. Jx might fold but if they do, they do. I would rather have that then just call and let villain peel a diamond on the river to just have something more in my mind when I am trying to make a river call. Just get it in as you say and hope for the best.

As played the river is a call since the 2 changes nothing and if you thought you were good on the turn then you are good on the river.
 
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