$100 NLHE 6-max: KK in 3 bet pot goes 3 ways, line check

[c0rnBr34d]

Being OOP sucks here. Turn was awkward, being OOP I don't want to give a free card here and there are a limited number of flush combos and Jx in a 3 bet pot here. I think we can still get called by AQ+ with one spade. River seems like a clear check and for this price I don't see how we can fold. I also don't see a strong case for raising. Thoughts?


PokerStars - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 80 BB
UTG: 191.46 BB
CO: 202.01 BB
BTN: 100.6 BB
Hero (SB): 247.49 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:diamond: K:club:

UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, Hero raises to 14 BB, fold, UTG calls 11 BB, BTN calls 11 BB

Flop: (43 BB, 3 players) J:spade: J:heart: 2:spade:
Hero bets 15 BB, UTG calls 15 BB, fold

Turn: (73 BB, 2 players) 3:spade:
Hero bets 35 BB, UTG calls 35 BB

River: (143 BB, 2 players) 3:club:
Hero checks, UTG bets 26 BB, Hero calls 26 BB

 

[cs_rlewis]

Yep i agree with your logic.
Given UTG called with a player left to act means his range his pretty narrow.
You can go either way on the turn - checking is fine but betting also for protection is good.
Id check on that runout on the river as well and am not folding to that river price.
Had you faced a larger bet I would consider folding due to the stack sizes.

 

[arenaci]

If I were you I would do the same

 

[Alucard]

I'd sqz much larger here 18-20BB cause deepstacked & it's vs UTG
probably pot control x Turn & evaluate river
Only hands I see we beat are middle pairs to Qs which most wouldn't call thrice so I'd just keep it to a 2 strt hand
If it were 100BBs eff I'd feel much more comfortable with barreling

 

[Sidetracked]

Seeing as how deep you are, and OOP, I would 3 bet larger.

Other than that, I like your line and bet sizes.

Did he have a Jack?

 

[beginnerbot]

I would squeeze larger, closer to 16bb. I don't see much point in betting the turn. When UTG calls the flop, he has either a pair, trips, or flushdraw. Your hand isn't that strong anymore.

 

[c0rnBr34d]

I would squeeze larger, closer to 16bb. I don't see much point in betting the turn. When UTG calls the flop, he has either a pair, trips, or flushdraw. Your hand isn't that strong anymore.

So don't try to get value or deny equity from 77-TT, QQ on the turn? Also for 1/3 sizing on the flop AQ+ and KQ may float with a spade blocker.

Pre flop I see a lot of people advocating for larger 3 bets. I did size up slightly to an even 14 BB which is more than a pot sized bet. Are you using 16 BB with your whole 3 bet range or only with KK+? Seems excessive to size this large with our whole range since we wont always be this strong. Is the implication that we will get too much action when we pot it here? Because like this case, in general I tend to get it heads up or take it down for this sizing.

 

[theheeb1984]

Being OOP sucks here. Turn was awkward, being OOP I don't want to give a free card here and there are a limited number of flush combos and Jx in a 3 bet pot here. I think we can still get called by AQ+ with one spade. River seems like a clear check and for this price I don't see how we can fold. I also don't see a strong case for raising. Thoughts?


PokerStars - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 80 BB
UTG: 191.46 BB
CO: 202.01 BB
BTN: 100.6 BB
Hero (SB): 247.49 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♦ K♣

UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, Hero raises to 14 BB, fold, UTG calls 11 BB, BTN calls 11 BB

Flop: (43 BB, 3 players) J♠ J♥ 2♠
Hero bets 15 BB, UTG calls 15 BB, fold

Turn: (73 BB, 2 players) 3♠
Hero bets 35 BB, UTG calls 35 BB

River: (143 BB, 2 players) 3♣
Hero checks, UTG bets 26 BB, Hero calls 26 BB

I like your play here and do not have any concerns with what you did.

The river bet smells a lot like they have a hand they want a call from as this is such a small bet and the total thrown into the pot for the entire hand is barely a third of the starting stack for him.

 

[c0rnBr34d]

Yep, this is a leak. 3 betting OOP when deep. Thanks.

 

[c0rnBr34d]

I like your play here and do not have any concerns with what you did.

The river bet smells a lot like they have a hand they want a call from as this is such a small bet and the total thrown into the pot for the entire hand is barely a third of the starting stack for him.

I agree it's gross. But we just cant afford to be wrong. If he ever shows up with QQ there and we fold it's a disaster. Much larger mistake to fold and be wrong than call and be wrong.

 

[beginnerbot]

So don't try to get value or deny equity from 77-TT, QQ on the turn? Also for 1/3 sizing on the flop AQ+ and KQ may float with a spade blocker.

Pre flop I see a lot of people advocating for larger 3 bets. I did size up slightly to an even 14 BB which is more than a pot sized bet. Are you using 16 BB with your whole 3 bet range or only with KK+? Seems excessive to size this large with our whole range since we wont always be this strong. Is the implication that we will get too much action when we pot it here? Because like this case, in general I tend to get it heads up or take it down for this sizing.

Preflop, you generally want to go larger when you are OOP. Vs a 3bb open, I would 3bet to 12-14bb in the SB. When there is a caller, I would go larger. 16bb to win 7.5bb isn't a bad price and we would prefer to just take it down preflop.
I would do it with my entire range, which would be something like ATs+, KTs+, JTs+, 99+, A5s.

On the flop, UTG should not float spade blockers and call marginal bluff catchers even to a small bet because there is still one person left to act who could have a pair or trips. When UTG calls, his range will be much stronger than if BU calls.

On the turn, when the third flush card comes in, UTG's weakest hand will be a pocket pair. Once you bet, UTG can comfortably fold any pair without a spade. The pairs with spades can be called to bluff the river.

When UTG bets very small on the river, it seems like a thin value bet. These small bets exploit people who don't check raise river. The counter to this type of bet is to check some very strong hands to check raise.

 

[UkoChebuko]

If I start to bet like this, my target will be QQ, TT, 99. OTR there will be some Ax hands. But at this board I can't see how every time he will shove with this hands. I can't see argument for check-call, sorry. And not to shove OTR. I can see arguments for check-fold, but not for check-call. If your plan was check-fold, then well played. And yes, vs this size you can't fold...
And if you don't have bluffs with shove OTR, you can't shove. Depends on this how you will play with Jx hands. How you will play with AK. And only you know this. I will shove there. With KK...In a vacuum, if he don't have a raise OTF, OTT, this will be -EV shove ofc. But we don't know that. And I really don't care much. Because the bluffs, you know.

 

[UkoChebuko]

I will use the same size for SQ. I can't see a reason for larger size. I will have ~8% SQ , I think this is a mistake to use such a large size. This is only my opinion, I don't want to argue. I will use 13bb actually. Even smaller. More fishy ....I think to use large size for squeeze, you must be pretty tight player. Like folding Ajo here ...

 

[fundiver199]

I think, you played this perfectly fine. After calling your 3-bet and your C-bet, a lot of his range should be pocket pairs. He should not have trips that often, and he should only have a few flushes. I see some people advocating a turn check, and I think, its kind of close, but I dont mind betting given the range, I just put him on. And of course the river is a snap call. We cant fold KK for this price, when he could be trying to get thin value from QQ or just buy it cheaply with a hand like AsQx.

 

[c0rnBr34d]

Seeing as how deep you are, and OOP, I would 3 bet larger.

Other than that, I like your line and bet sizes.

Did he have a Jack?

No, he had AKss which was very surprising. I think I may have lost the minimum. If he 4 bets here I probably double him up and lose 191 BB instead of 90 BB.

 

[Sidetracked]

No, he had AKss which was very surprising. I think I may have lost the minimum. If he 4 bets here I probably double him up and lose 191 BB instead of 90 BB.

Getting jiggy with his flush on a paired board is interesting.

His river bet looks to be a bit 'blocking bet' . I wonder if he would have called a raise there.

 

[c0rnBr34d]

Getting jiggy with his flush on a paired board is interesting.

His river bet looks to be a bit 'blocking bet' . I wonder if he would have called a raise there.

We were deep enough that a jam would still have some fold equity. I didn't have enough history to have a read on whether he's over folding in that spot. Our value range is so tiny though. He should really only be worried about 2 combos of AJs and one combo of JJ. And Hero really shouldn't be checking any of those OTR as trying to induce a bet is very risky. Facing 3 value combos and a questionable line I think he still can find a call often enough to make the jam -EV if he's solid. I think we can get him to fold QQ and KK often enough in that spot but I'm not sure what he does with AA and his Ace high flushes. Would be a really strong bluff though.

 

[Viparida]

On this board especifically i would not do a c-bet or maybe only a light c-bet jj is too much in his range.