$100 NLHE 6-max: Was I just a station this hand or is call down ok?

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c0rnBr34d

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PokerStars - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 137.18 BB
SB: 296.11 BB
Hero (BB): 236.79 BB - VP 21 / PR 16 / 3B 14 / AF 2 (68 hands)
UTG: 189.96 BB
CO: 132.33 BB - VP 20 / PR 23 / 3B 9 / AF 2 (501 Hands)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 6:diamond: 6:spade:

fold, CO raises to 2.5 BB, fold, SB calls 2 BB, Hero calls 1.5 BB

Flop: (7.5 BB, 3 players) 7:spade: 8:spade: 4:spade:
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: (7.5 BB, 3 players) 3:heart:
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets 4.77 BB, fold, Hero calls 4.77 BB

River: (17.04 BB, 2 players) 4:heart:
Hero checks, CO bets 20.24 BB, Hero calls 20.24 BB

Seemed a bit light to squeeze pre so I'm happy to set mine closing the action against wide ranges. Interesting flop, we block the straight and some flushes and have one out to the straight flush. Little surprised to see it x through on the flop. Turn was really close. I wanted to bet as I can get value from overcards but I also didn't want to bloat the pot as a lot of rivers will be tough OOP and both of these Vs are not afraid to overbet. I decide to x/c again. If V checks behind we likely lost value but giving up some EV to keep things more manageable didn't seem terrible, plus overcards and flush draws will have to bet turn most of the time. Also it would suck to get raised. River is fairly blank and since V fired turn we decide to go for the x/c again. Pretty sure I'm playing this more aggressively heads up but 3 way this line seemed better. River call too light? Other thoughts?
 
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fundiver199

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Preflop and flop seem very standard. As you say turn is close between betting for protection and thin value or check-calling. The river overbet is interesting. I dont think, a flush or straight ever takes this line. Checking back flop and then overbetting river, when the board pairs, makes zero sense, if you flopped a straight or flush.

I also dont think, trips take this line. Why would a hand like A4 make a big bet on the turn. Also makes zero sense. So we are pretty much down to full houses, and as far as they go, 88, 77 and 44 would usually have bet the flop. Which leave us with 43s and 33. A very thin value range, so if he is ever capable of bluffing, this should be a fine call.

Just for the record this is because, its 100NL. I assume, people at these limits are actually capable of overbetting as a bluff into someone, who has shown weakness, and they have some sort of idea, how to play their value hands. If this was 2NL, then just fold, because then the opponent can have whatever, and its almost always going to beat 66 :)
 
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gustav197poker

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Call of GTO for a villain who has enough bluffs in his range. Specifically, you exceed A5o; A3s; A2s; 9-To; TJo + random. You are representing a blocker most of the time. The villain value range is primarily limited to JJ +. Since CO has more relevant blockers in its random bluff combos, we may have to give up if the bet size on the river is higher, something like 2.5x the pot size or higher. But at this overbet size it seems appropriate to call, also considering that its opening was minimal for the position played.
Greetings.
 
Alucard

Alucard

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he can have overpairs that can take this line. Specially without a club imo.
Makes me wanna donk turn or xr tbh. might seem atrocious but meh
 
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300HPGOD

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In game I would probably have trouble with this hand but having time to digest the hand and think about before posting, the more I think this is heavily weighted towards a bluff by the villain.
  1. He should think you are not taking the line you took with a flopped flush, set or overpair (I dont think we would be checking 3 times in our position with any of those hands and villain probably thinks likewise)
  2. He knows you have a little something or you would not have called the turn bet but from point number 1, our range is capped so it has to be something with value where villain cant check and win most likely but is something we could fold.
  3. Villains range is capped too (in my opinion anyway). I think he could play a flopped flush in the way he did flop and turn but would not make a bet with so much fold prowess on the river if he had the effective nuts or the actual nuts. A set I dont think he plays as slowly as he did and also believe that for an overpair
For the reasons above I would think our hand looks marginal to villain and they probably know they cant get to showdown and win with air. I think they are betting big here to go for the fold and not for value. Even though I hate calling big bets with marginal hands such as ours, I like calling here.
 
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c0rnBr34d

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he can have overpairs that can take this line. Specially without a club imo.
Makes me wanna donk turn or xr tbh. might seem atrocious but meh
You would check back flop with an over pair here as the PFR? Perhaps with a big spade but without a big spade why give two players a free card to catch up?

I agree we can donk turn and double barrel but x/r seems a bit much. If we get called and miss river I guess we are blasting and praying?
 
Alucard

Alucard

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You would check back flop with an over pair here as the PFR? Perhaps with a big spade but without a big spade why give two players a free card to catch up?

I agree we can donk turn and double barrel but x/r seems a bit much. If we get called and miss river I guess we are blasting and praying?


yeah it's quite fine to check back an overpair on this board.
If we donk we have to bomb turn & river cause many people hate folding an overpair even without a blocker. I find it people find it less likely to continue vs a xr than a donk but in this spot it might seem way too fishy given no action on flop
 
loafaBREAD

loafaBREAD

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yeah it's quite fine to check back an overpair on this board.
If we donk we have to bomb turn & river cause many people hate folding an overpair even without a blocker. I find it people find it less likely to continue vs a xr than a donk but in this spot it might seem way too fishy given no action on flop

Hm... I don't really seeing overpairs x'ing flop, especially those w/out the fd 3-way.

I'd imagine V could once in a while x back a flopped flush, but have a lot of single big spades that could check to realize equity 3-way.

I think I like a turn bet, but it does get us into sticky situations.

Given the turn check, I agree with 300HP's analysis. V can put a lot of pressure on us, but I imagine V to be polarized here and without those marginal hands (overpairs) there.
 
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c0rnBr34d

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yeah it's quite fine to check back an overpair on this board.
If we donk we have to bomb turn & river cause many people hate folding an overpair even without a blocker. I find it people find it less likely to continue vs a xr than a donk but in this spot it might seem way too fishy given no action on flop
I hadn't heard this before. I tend to bet small. 1/3 to 1/2 pot max all three streets (checking back river vs tighter players) with an over pair as calling ranges are inelastic and our equity is low and tenuous as you've stated. Giving free cards in position in a 3 way pot seems a bit too cautious and is missing some EV. If we size 1/3 and get raised we can fold or even flat once and fold turn to further aggression. Most players will not be willing to barrel off a multi street bluff here OOP vs the PFR.

Where can I get more info on this type of line strategy? I did a quick Google search but only turned up with Upswing who also suggests less than 50% pot bet for all three streets.
 
Alucard

Alucard

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Where can I get more info on this type of line strategy? I did a quick Google search but only turned up with Upswing who also suggests less than 50% pot bet for all three streets.

I study on run it once & raise your edge these days
On monotone flops we either check or bet small to my knowledge.
Here there are straight draws as well. And I'd say this flop hits Blinds range pretty hard.


So lets say we bet all our overpairs,Acxc, Flushes, straights,sets and other value hands. So that makes our checking back range pretty damn weak.
Also lets say we bet our overpair & get check raised, then it'd be a really tough spot.
Considering this wouldn't be a 3strt hand with our overpair, it'd be fine to just xb.
checking back also lets the villain to bluff the later strts

I'd say we can bet more vulnerable overpairs like TT,JJ & xb QQ+
 
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c0rnBr34d

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Thanks, will look into this. At first glance it seems a little overbalanced to me but maybe it's just a matter of us having different hands in our x/back flop range.
 
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