$100 NL HE Full Ring:

[John A]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.50/$1

Table Format

Full (8-10 seats)

Currency

$

Raise or overcall w/ opponent behind?

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem 1(BB)
SB (100BBs) [VPIP: 11.1% | PFR: 11.1% | AGG: 0% | hands: 36]
BB (141.7BBs) [VPIP: 29.2% | PFR: 16.7% | AGG: 13.3% | Hands: 24]
UTG (113.1BBs) [VPIP: 9.1% | PFR: 6.8% | AGG: 42.9% | Hands: 45]
EP (251.5BBs) [VPIP: 12.5% | PFR: 12.5% | AGG: 42.9% | Flop Agg: 33.3% | Turn Agg: 50% | 3-Bet: 5% | 4-Bet: 0% | Hands: 49]
HERO (113.6BBs) [VPIP: 29.1% | PFR: 22.3% | AGG: 37.2% | Flop Agg: 42.4% | Turn Agg: 39.4% | 3-Bet: 10.2% | 4-Bet: 12.6% | Cold Call: 14.8% | Hands: 7320]
MP2 (188.4BBs) [VPIP: 16.3% | PFR: 10.2% | AGG: 53.8% | Flop Agg: 57.1% | Turn Agg: 40% | 3-Bet: 4.5% | 4-Bet: 0% | Cold Call: 8.7% | Hands: 49]
HJ (69BBs) [VPIP: 20% | PFR: 10% | AGG: 60% | Hands: 20]
CO (110.7BBs) [VPIP: 35.4% | PFR: 20.8% | AGG: 60% | Hands: 49]
BTN (106.9BBs) [VPIP: 16.7% | PFR: 14.6% | AGG: 20% | Hands: 49]

Dealt to Hero: J♦ J♣

UTG Folds, EP Raises To 3BBs, HERO Calls 3BBs, MP2 Calls 3BBs, HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Folds

Hero SPR on Flop: [10.54 effective]
Flop (10.5BBs): 4♠ J♥ 7♦
EP Checks, HERO Checks, MP2 Checks

Turn (10.5BBs): 4♠ J♥ 7♦ Q♥
EP Bets 7.5BBs (Rem. Stack: 241BBs), HERO..

 

[Kinalha]

First, i never flat JJ with these stacks... but in the turn for me is very obvious 3bet maybe 3-bet light, the EP can have all Qx and sometimes 44 77 playing like this, and the obvious all draws hearts/streets, so making a 3-bet turn, you still receive a lot of calls to see the river...

 

[gustav197poker]

Given the stats described this is a villain, in which one could play slower, especially when we're at a long table and V opens from a strong position like EP or UTG+1 like in this case. Although the table seems quite conservative, it is very likely that our attitude will cause other players to enter the pot. At least BB and CO could get in on the action.
That gives us a bit of an advantage over BB and EP, since we have position, but as for the player who is the CO, I think it is better to be more aggressive, because if CO calls our 3-bet and the EP make 4-bet would eventually make things easier for hero.
But something unexpected happens. The call of MP2, being a much more conservative player profile than CO. Which leads me to think that my assumptions are inaccurate, and that is probably because the sample sizes are not large enough to form more solid opinions, regarding the preliminary information about players (CO is not as wide as I thought and now MP2 doesn't seem very closed).
Personally, and based on the fact that 49 sample hands is not a very large number, I would opt to 3-bet preflop.
The flop is very dry and as played be passive aggressive is fine, especially on the turn where we could represent more semi bluffs in our range.
If V decides to 3-bet on the turn I would limit myself to just calling, to get more value from AA/KK on the river, although we also expose ourselves more to eventual bad beats.

 

[John A]

First, i never flat JJ with these stacks... but in the turn for me is very obvious 3bet maybe 3-bet light, the EP can have all Qx and sometimes 44 77 playing like this, and the obvious all draws hearts/streets, so making a 3-bet turn, you still receive a lot of calls to see the river...

Thanks for the response. Not really looking for pre-flop feedback, as obviously I 3-bet a healthy amount. There was a reason for flatting, and of course I largely would 3-bet this pre.

I'm not sure what you mean by 3-betting the turn, that's not possible. The question is more about what's ideal to do when you're in a sandwiched post flop position and the board begins to coordinate on the turn. Do you raise and just ISO the pre-flop raiser on the turn, or over call and hope for MP2 to come along / induce more river betting.

 

[Station_Master]

I think it's a clear raise on the turn, lots of draws and our hand is under repped. Mp2 is probably not coming along anyway unless he has a draw to suck out on you!

 

[kostja007]

First, i never flat JJ with these stacks... but in the turn for me is very obvious 3bet maybe 3-bet light, the EP can have all Qx and sometimes 44 77 playing like this, and the obvious all draws hearts/streets, so making a 3-bet turn, you still receive a lot of calls to see the river...

I do agree that you should never flat JJ. A 3bet is much more effective.
But I do think an EP should always/very often fold 44 preflop.

 

[Aballinamion]

Raise or overcall w/ opponent behind?

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem 1(BB)
SB (100BBs) [VPIP: 11.1% | PFR: 11.1% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 36]
BB (141.7BBs) [VPIP: 29.2% | PFR: 16.7% | AGG: 13.3% | Hands: 24]
UTG (113.1BBs) [VPIP: 9.1% | PFR: 6.8% | AGG: 42.9% | Hands: 45]
EP (251.5BBs) [VPIP: 12.5% | PFR: 12.5% | AGG: 42.9% | Flop Agg: 33.3% | Turn Agg: 50% | 3-Bet: 5% | 4-Bet: 0% | Hands: 49]
HERO (113.6BBs) [VPIP: 29.1% | PFR: 22.3% | AGG: 37.2% | Flop Agg: 42.4% | Turn Agg: 39.4% | 3-Bet: 10.2% | 4-Bet: 12.6% | Cold Call: 14.8% | Hands: 7320]
MP2 (188.4BBs) [VPIP: 16.3% | PFR: 10.2% | AGG: 53.8% | Flop Agg: 57.1% | Turn Agg: 40% | 3-Bet: 4.5% | 4-Bet: 0% | Cold Call: 8.7% | Hands: 49]
HJ (69BBs) [VPIP: 20% | PFR: 10% | AGG: 60% | Hands: 20]
CO (110.7BBs) [VPIP: 35.4% | PFR: 20.8% | AGG: 60% | Hands: 49]
BTN (106.9BBs) [VPIP: 16.7% | PFR: 14.6% | AGG: 20% | Hands: 49]

Dealt to Hero: J♦ J♣

UTG Folds, EP Raises To 3BBs, HERO Calls 3BBs, MP2 Calls 3BBs, HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Folds

Hero SPR on Flop: [10.54 effective]
Flop (10.5BBs): 4♠ J♥ 7♦
EP Checks, HERO Checks, MP2 Checks

Turn (10.5BBs): 4♠ J♥ 7♦ Q♥
EP Bets 7.5BBs (Rem. Stack: 241BBs), HERO..

Only 49 hands played versus villain means nothing to me. On the turn seems a very easy call, although villain could have some queens on its range it also has a lot of bluffs.
However, if you have more information beyond the HUD stats it could be a pretty easy fold.
Don’t get me wrong, you are far away a better player than me.
I am objective on my analysis but players tend to look at me as rude.

 

[Aballinamion]

First, i never flat JJ with these stacks... but in the turn for me is very obvious 3bet maybe 3-bet light, the EP can have all Qx and sometimes 44 77 playing like this, and the obvious all draws hearts/streets, so making a 3-bet turn, you still receive a lot of calls to see the river...

This is the sole problem: you NEVER flat with JJ playing 100 NLHE or less.
GTO based it is more wise to flat sometimes and sometimes 3-bet. When we apply the same action a 100% of times, we become exploited very easily for our opponents.
Hero must have his reasons and HUD stats for flatting in a spot like this, so he can balance his range preflop.

 

[rastapapolos]

The question is more about what's ideal to do when you're in a sandwiched post flop position and the board begins to coordinate on the turn. Do you raise and just ISO the pre-flop raiser on the turn, or over call and hope for MP2 to come along / induce more river betting.

IMO there are a lot of draws that you can get value from, raising is profitable in this spot. If they miss their flush/straight draws on the river you'll get nothing from them, so it's obvious to raise. Another point is if all draws miss on the river, you could jam and polarize your range.