$100 NL full ring. Blind battle.

tenbob

tenbob

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Spewy or standard ?? Small blind had been playing very nitty, played around 100(ish) hands with him, showed down nothing less than a set, I felt that I could get him off lots of holdings on the flop.

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG+1 ($71.15)
MP1 ($149.65)
MP2 ($101.70)
CO ($99.50)
Button ($18.90)
SB ($97.50)
Hero ($100)
UTG ($49.70)
Preflop: Hero is BB with J
club.gif
, K
heart.gif
.
6 folds, SB raises to $4, Hero raises to $10, SB raises to $23, Hero calls $13.
Flop: ($46) J
heart.gif
, 3
club.gif
, 8
spade.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $30, Hero raises to $77
 
stormswa

stormswa

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Spewy or standard ?? Small blind had been playing very nitty, played around 100(ish) hands with him, showed down nothing less than a set, I felt that I could get him off lots of holdings on the flop.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG+1 ($71.15)
MP1 ($149.65)
MP2 ($101.70)
CO ($99.50)
Button ($18.90)
SB ($97.50)
Hero ($100)
UTG ($49.70)
Preflop: Hero is BB with J
club.gif
, K
heart.gif
.
6 folds, SB raises to $4, Hero raises to $10, SB raises to $23, Hero calls $13.
Flop: ($46) J
heart.gif
, 3
club.gif
, 8
spade.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $30, Hero raises to $77


its such a small bet preflop its really hard to fold but the problem with that is now we are put in a very very tough spot.

I would of probably just folded preflop, the small raise looks very strong like he wanted action. Now on flop you hit what you needed to and he could be playing AK like this a lot of the time.
 
KMC1828

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its such a small bet preflop its really hard to fold but the problem with that is now we are put in a very very tough spot.

I would of probably just folded preflop, the small raise looks very strong like he wanted action. Now on flop you hit what you needed to and he could be playing AK like this a lot of the time.

AK is what i originally thought as well.
 
joosebuck

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i dont think hes folding kk/aa here. maybe qq, but usually nits dont get out of line with stuff like AK here. if nitty this 3bet usually means ak/kk/aa. even with position i prolly fold this after the 3bet.
 
stormswa

stormswa

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Spewy or standard ?? Small blind had been playing very nitty, played around 100(ish) hands with him, showed down nothing less than a set, I felt that I could get him off lots of holdings on the flop.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG+1 ($71.15)
MP1 ($149.65)
MP2 ($101.70)
CO ($99.50)
Button ($18.90)
SB ($97.50)
Hero ($100)
UTG ($49.70)
Preflop: Hero is BB with J
club.gif
, K
heart.gif
.
6 folds, SB raises to $4, Hero raises to $10, SB raises to $23, Hero calls $13.
Flop: ($46) J
heart.gif
, 3
club.gif
, 8
spade.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $30, Hero raises to $77

i dont think hes folding kk/aa here. maybe qq, but usually nits dont get out of line with stuff like AK here. if nitty this 3bet usually means ak/kk/aa. even with position i prolly fold this after the 3bet.


joose where is the 3bet at?
preflop he raises us to $23 afer our raise of $10 and on flop he leads for $30 and we raise to $77
 
ChuckTs

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joose where is the 3bet at?


Here:
SB raises to $23

PF is ugly. Even though we're given great odds to call, we can't expect our hand to be best at this point if he's a nit. I don't see him doing this without a big pair or AK. Like joose said, even with position, I like a fold here.

I think there are more bigger hands that we're spewing chips to than there are 'foldable' hands that we are pushing out on that flop.
 
Four Dogs

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When a nit 3 bets me I fold.
 
dbitel

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SB's last raise is a 4bet guys, not a 3bet, hero's rr was the 3bet.

Anyway, I would fold to villains 4bet 100% of the time, I have no idea why you called.

You have to understand that your raise on the flop cannot be a bluff here, he is simply never folding a better hand. If for some reason you got to the flop this way and wanted to continue, then you have to flat call flop. But IMO, he has QQ like always, so if I misclick called preflop, I'm still folding this flop
 
stormswa

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Here:

PF is ugly. Even though we're given great odds to call, we can't expect our hand to be best at this point if he's a nit. I don't see him doing this without a big pair or AK. Like joose said, even with position, I like a fold here.

I think there are more bigger hands that we're spewing chips to than there are 'foldable' hands that we are pushing out on that flop.


ok I was thinking of 3-betting in different way then what was stated.

I was thinking 3betting in amounts not what bet it is.
 
Schatzdog

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Just reading through now and agree with most of everyone. Nits PF 4-bet range is AA/KK/QQ/AK and I don't think he'd play AK this way. Fold PF
 
stormswa

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Just reading through now and agree with most of everyone. Nits PF 4-bet range is AA/KK/QQ/AK and I don't think he'd play AK this way. Fold PF


why wouldnt he play AK like this?


seems pretty standard for AK in my opinion. now im not saying get it all in here im just wondering what would make you think he dosent have AK?
 
ChuckTs

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Just reading through now and agree with most of everyone. Nits PF 4-bet range is AA/KK/QQ/AK and I don't think he'd play AK this way. Fold PF

why wouldnt he play AK like this?


seems pretty standard for AK in my opinion. now im not saying get it all in here im just wondering what would make you think he dosent have AK?

AK is very possible, but players generally don't make 4-bets (ty mr bitel for clearing that up :)) for such inviting amounts. I say possible, but less likely. We're behind here most of the time, and I still fold PF.
 
Schatzdog

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My thinking is that a nit wants more of a made hand before he bloats the pot PF.
 
stormswa

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AK is very possible, but players generally don't make 4-bets (ty mr bitel for clearing that up :)) for such inviting amounts. I say possible, but less likely. We're behind here most of the time, and I still fold PF.


k thanks Chuck and like I said in my OP yea I dont play this PF either.
 
ChuckTs

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My thinking is that a nit wants more of a made hand before he bloats the pot PF.

Well I think this depends on whether he's kind of a weak-tight nit, or an aggressive nit, if you know what I mean. One who's more aggressive will probably happily get his stack in with AK, but doesn't want to see a flop OOP, so he'll probably raise a lot more after TB's reraise.

A weak nit might just call and check-fold a flop without TPTK or better, with the (again, weak) thinking that it's 'not even a made hand'.
 
skoldpadda

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I think it's an easy fold PF to the 4-bet since you read him as a nit.
 
Schatzdog

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Well I think this depends on whether he's kind of a weak-tight nit, or an aggressive nit, if you know what I mean. One who's more aggressive will probably happily get his stack in with AK, but doesn't want to see a flop OOP, so he'll probably raise a lot more after TB's reraise.

A weak nit might just call and check-fold a flop without TPTK or better, with the (again, weak) thinking that it's 'not even a made hand'.


I've made the assumption that this is a true nit and for me that sits more on the weak-tight side in which case he's looking for TPTK on the flop as you said.
 
tenbob

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Thanks for the input folks, I really dont know why I called the 4-bet if im honest. One of the major holes in my game is making occasional silly calls when im on several tables at once.

In the cold light of day, I also though my 3-bet was a little on the small side, and my flop push was a much bigger mistake than my pre-flop call, especially if I have AK as part of his range. Not that it mattered, but he folded the flop.
 
A

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How bad is calling flop and reevaluating on turn.
 
Jagsti

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How bad is calling flop and reevaluating on turn.

If your calling flop, you have over 1/2 your stack in the pot so re-evaluating the turn is not really an option for me. As played, im putting the rest in on the flop. Surely if your calling the 4 - bet and you hit the flop your getting it all in on the flop? However i'm deffo folding pf here to the 4-bet.
 
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