$10 NLHE 6-max: Is this type of fold not good?

[gochillgo]

Going thru a nice draw, then villain just makes a big bet!

During the hand, which seemed fast to me, I was taken aback since I was calling like 15 cents, then villain goes $1.86, this lead me to fold, although I could see that I had a lot of outs, and probably implied odds will be in my favor. Unfortunately, I am not used to compute this on the fly during hand plays, so with the pressure there, I just fold. Which begged the question: Is this type of fold bad?

Please comment if my offline analysis makes sense, like this is my first time doing this:

- by turn and villain bets, pot odds of about 2.95 to 1.86 (like 3:2 or 1.5:1 estimate right?)
- and my chance to hit my outs is like 2:1 right? based on flush and oesd outs chart, 1 card
to come.
- since chance of losing 2:1 is higher than 1.5:1 calling bet, this is not good right?
- but if I hit and bet $3 of villains stack (and if he calls) then pot odds become 6:2 which is 3 to 1. If this is the case then calling would be justified? What's the better play? Fold or call?

Appreciate your input, thanks.



888Poker Snap, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $11.86 (119 bb)
MP: $9.67 (97 bb)
CO: $5.45 (55 bb)
BU: $10.39 (104 bb)
SB (Hero): $13.52 (135 bb)
BB: $10.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with 6♥ 3♥
2 players fold, CO calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.05, BB checks

Flop: ($0.30) 5♥ T♥ Q♦ (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.15, CO calls $0.15, Hero calls $0.15

Turn: ($0.75) 4♠ (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.37, CO raises to $1.86, SB (Hero) folds, BB folds

Total pot: $1.49 (Rake: $0.07)
CO wins $1.42

 

[Sidetracked]

If we assume that all of your 15 outs are good, then on the turn you are 2:1 against making either a straight or a flush on the river.

You are having to call $1.86 into about a $3 pot, so you aren't getting express odds on that call. However, the huge difference between limit poker and big bet poker is implied odds. If you do make your hand on the river, how much more can you get the villain to pay?

In this case, based on villain's large turn bet, I would say that your implied odds are very high in this spot. Even to the point where you may get the villain's entire stack.

I don't think folding here is bad, either. You have no idea what the BB is going to do, and you could end up in a miserable spot of having to call an all in to see the river.

 

[gustav197poker]

Fold preflop, unless you have a vpip and a pfr of 8/8 for a representative sample, and you want to play with your opening that coincidentally concentrates 8% of the most marginal combinations possible. But this only makes sense 0.5% of the time, or less in micro stakes. Since rake outweighs any advantage, against that minimum marginality of 8% preflop. Having played the fold on the turn is necessary, because you are behind many better draws. Even folding on the flop is recommended as well. Again, the preflop fold is the better move here.
Greetings.

 

[Aballinamion]

Going thru a nice draw, then villain just makes a big bet!

During the hand, which seemed fast to me, I was taken aback since I was calling like 15 cents, then villain goes $1.86, this lead me to fold, although I could see that I had a lot of outs, and probably implied odds will be in my favor. Unfortunately, I am not used to compute this on the fly during hand plays, so with the pressure there, I just fold. Which begged the question: Is this type of fold bad?

Please comment if my offline analysis makes sense, like this is my first time doing this:

- by turn and villain bets, pot odds of about 2.95 to 1.86 (like 3:2 or 1.5:1 estimate right?)
- and my chance to hit my outs is like 2:1 right? based on flush and oesd outs chart, 1 card
to come.
- since chance of losing 2:1 is higher than 1.5:1 calling bet, this is not good right?
- but if I hit and bet $3 of villains stack (and if he calls) then pot odds become 6:2 which is 3 to 1. If this is the case then calling would be justified? What's the better play? Fold or call?

Appreciate your input, thanks.



888Poker Snap, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $11.86 (119 bb)
MP: $9.67 (97 bb)
CO: $5.45 (55 bb)
BU: $10.39 (104 bb)
SB (Hero): $13.52 (135 bb)
BB: $10.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with 6♥ 3♥
2 players fold, CO calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.05, BB checks

Flop: ($0.30) 5♥ T♥ Q♦ (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.15, CO calls $0.15, Hero calls $0.15

Turn: ($0.75) 4♠ (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.37, CO raises to $1.86, SB (Hero) folds, BB folds

Total pot: $1.49 (Rake: $0.07)
CO wins $1.42

Well, I really don't see the point in completing from the SB while playing Cash Games. It is proven by several professionals that it simply doesn't work: from the SB our style of game should be always straightforward: either we are folding or we are raising/3-betting, 99%.
The SB is one of the best positions preflop for stealing, because we can represent tons of strenght by raising limpers or 3-betting, because we are saying we are going to put pressure postflop out of position and we usually do these actions with the top of our range, and a couple of very good potential semi-bluffs preflop.
However, althought the SB is one of the best positions preflop for stealing, postflop is the worst one ever: we are always the first to act and our equity will not realize so often, because we are going to be overplayed a hundred of times being OOP/SB.

When we do elect to complete from the SB we give up initiative and we are just hoping to take a nice cheap flop, but we shouldn't forget the nature of the long run.
Your hand is a very good example, you completed preflop, got a pretty good equity and then fold. So it rests the question, why, for God's Sake, have you completed preflop?

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[Dkerridge14]

Going thru a nice draw, then villain just makes a big bet!

During the hand, which seemed fast to me, I was taken aback since I was calling like 15 cents, then villain goes $1.86, this lead me to fold, although I could see that I had a lot of outs, and probably implied odds will be in my favor. Unfortunately, I am not used to compute this on the fly during hand plays, so with the pressure there, I just fold. Which begged the question: Is this type of fold bad?

Please comment if my offline analysis makes sense, like this is my first time doing this:

- by turn and villain bets, pot odds of about 2.95 to 1.86 (like 3:2 or 1.5:1 estimate right?)
- and my chance to hit my outs is like 2:1 right? based on flush and oesd outs chart, 1 card
to come.
- since chance of losing 2:1 is higher than 1.5:1 calling bet, this is not good right?
- but if I hit and bet $3 of villains stack (and if he calls) then pot odds become 6:2 which is 3 to 1. If this is the case then calling would be justified? What's the better play? Fold or call?

Appreciate your input, thanks.



888Poker Snap, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $11.86 (119 bb)
MP: $9.67 (97 bb)
CO: $5.45 (55 bb)
BU: $10.39 (104 bb)
SB (Hero): $13.52 (135 bb)
BB: $10.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with 6♥ 3♥
2 players fold, CO calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.05, BB checks

Flop: ($0.30) 5♥ T♥ Q♦ (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.15, CO calls $0.15, Hero calls $0.15

Turn: ($0.75) 4♠ (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.37, CO raises to $1.86, SB (Hero) folds, BB folds

Total pot: $1.49 (Rake: $0.07)
CO wins $1.42

I think on the flop a check-raise is in order, it will give you an opportunity to knock off all the higher flushes, you would also knock some Tx hands off. It would most certainly turn this spot +EV. It would also serve to narrow the field down and get heads up. Using a check raise would allow you to barrel the turn so if you do make your flush you are going to be able to extract some value as the pot would’ve grown so the top pair, 2p type hands would be able to call due to the swollen pot. If you do miss and check then it’s going to be massively hard for villains to bet because you’ve show significant strength. So if they do bet you know quite well it’s worth not continuing and if it checks down you get a good opportunity to see a free card to make the flush. Not only that, you have a good amount of outs on the turn so if a bet does come in usually you will be able to call. Of course in this turn scenario you can’t and have to muck.

Moral to the story is don’t lack aggression in spots like this. A check-raise would of being quite likely to take the pot down because nether villains ranges are strong other than 2 low sets and a few weak pair or 2 pair kind hands.

Also, if any lower cards come in to complete the straight to the T,Q on the flop then it would be the perfect type of spot to bluff and take the pot down as your range is also very wide and you could easily rep hands that complete straights and that will balance your range in this spot

 

[gochillgo]

Your hand is a very good example, you completed preflop, got a pretty good equity and then fold. So it rests the question, why, for God's Sake, have you completed preflop?

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

Hi Carlos,

Thinking at that time was, this 5 cents might create a monster oh well sometimes anyway haha. Nevertheless, will consider your advise regarding this SB spot moving on. Thanks!