$10 NLHE 6-max: TPTK, Standard Call?

blueskies

blueskies

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I have AQos at UTG+1.
UTG (never played with him before) limps, I raise to 40c. SB calls and UTG calls. Others fold.

Flop's QT8 with two spades. Check, check, and I bet 2/3 pot. SB folds, UTG calls.

Turn's a Jh.

Check check.

River's a 4c. Changes nothing unless he was on drugs and chasing with 44.

He leads out with a $2.09 bet into roughly a $2.80 pot.

I call.

The thing with 10NL at BOL is that it's hard to figure out these guys. Often they bet when they shouldn't. They turn medium strength hands into bluffs. I thought it was 50/50 that he had a 9 or a QJ type of 2 pairs that beats me and that was good enough for me to call.

Anyway, would you make this call against an unknown?
 
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Casey55

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He has a ton of 9x in his range, he was probably hoping you continued betting turn but when you don’t he’s trying to make up for missed value with a polarized sizing
 
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fundiver199

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Preflop
Standard isolation raise

Flop
If I understand it correctly, you flopped TPTK and the nut flushdraw, so things looking really good for now. And yeah obviously betting for value here.

Turn
Narly card putting out a 1-liner to a straight and even more 2 pair combos, that are all over his range. Definitely on board with checking back to control the size of the pot and realise my equity.

River
Your hand was great on the flop, but the turn card was an absolute killer. So much stuff beat you, and if you want to catch a bluff, then its much better to call with AQ without the ace of spades, so he can have busted flushdraws like A2-A7 of spades. Sometimes people get to caught up in blockers, but here I feel, we have a situation, where they should definitely push us towards letting this particular combo go.
 
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Sidetracked

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Against an unknown, I will fold in this spot.

To call there, I need to have a specific read that he is capable of bluffing with a worse hand than yours in this spot.
 
blueskies

blueskies

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Preflop
Standard isolation raise

Flop
If I understand it correctly, you flopped TPTK and the nut flushdraw, so things looking really good for now. And yeah obviously betting for value here.

Turn
Narly card putting out a 1-liner to a straight and even more 2 pair combos, that are all over his range. Definitely on board with checking back to control the size of the pot and realise my equity.

River
Your hand was great on the flop, but the turn card was an absolute killer. So much stuff beat you, and if you want to catch a bluff, then its much better to call with AQ without the ace of spades, so he can have busted flushdraws like A2-A7 of spades. Sometimes people get to caught up in blockers, but here I feel, we have a situation, where they should definitely push us towards letting this particular combo go.

I did not have a flush draw on the flop as i had offsuit hole cards.

Many 10nl players on bol are basically 2nl players on other sites because that is the smallest stakes bol offers. In this situation against a decent player usually a donk bet polarizes his hand but i have found that these bol guys do strange things often enough that i felt TPTK could still be good here even if it is not a bluff.

I.e. they would bet a pair here. Definitely not smart to do it in this situation, but they do it.
 
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Casey55

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I have AQos at UTG+1.
UTG (never played with him before) limps, I raise to 40c. SB calls and UTG calls. Others fold.

Flop's QT8 with two spades. Check, check, and I bet 2/3 pot. SB folds, UTG calls.

Turn's a Jh.

Check check.

River's a 4c. Changes nothing unless he was on drugs and chasing with 44.

He leads out with a $2.09 bet into roughly a $2.80 pot.

I call.

The thing with 10NL at BOL is that it's hard to figure out these guys. Often they bet when they shouldn't. They turn medium strength hands into bluffs. I thought it was 50/50 that he had a 9 or a QJ type of 2 pairs that beats me and that was good enough for me to call.

Anyway, would you make this call against an unknown?

you mentioned you had never played with the opponent before. I am working on similar things you are saying here, I am at low stakes and deal with a variety of player types, many of them will play in unpredictable and fishy ways BUT I will say that I have called far too many river leveling myself into thinking they could be betting with worse, thinking they may be over-playing worse hands and I have paid off a ton of times to find out they had it. Going through these experiences over and over has really taught me that 1. when people want to put their stack in, even the bad players will show up with the nuts especially on the river 2. I do not assume anyone to play exceptionally poor and make assumptions that they will over-play streets especially the river without solid reads about that players tendancies and player types. Even at the lowest stakes players will just not bluff rivers enough, even the weakest of players know when its time to put their money in the middle with a solid hand.. assuming or leveling ourselves into thinking they are over-playing or bluffing without solid reads will lead to big -EV decisions on the river. Confessions of a 2nl player. LOL
 
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fundiver199

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I did not have a flush draw on the flop as i had offsuit hole cards.

Ok I thought AKos meant "AK of spades", but I understand now it means "AK offsuit". Dont BOL have downloadable hand histories? Its so much easier, if you post the actual hand history, so we get all relevant information including the suit of each card.

In this situation against a decent player usually a donk bet polarizes his hand

A donk bet is a lead into the previous street aggressor. Here the turn went check-check, so there was no previous street aggressor, and he was just leading not donk betting. This does make a difference, because an actual donk bet is a much rarer move than just a lead and typically need to be interpreted differently.

but i have found that these bol guys do strange things often enough that i felt TPTK could still be good here even if it is not a bluff.

I dont play on BOL so I cant comment on that read. But I will say, that only extremely bad players would bet one pair here and think, its for value. I could see that a lot more, if he had gone for some sort of blocker sizing like 20% pot. But he bet very large, and even a recreational player should understand, that a large bet on this board is not for value, if he has a hand like KQ.
 
blueskies

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It turned out he had AJ.

That's the main challenge to playing on BOL. It's hard to tell if a player I have never played before knows what he's doing. I generally assume he is bad until I see him be good. There are regs there who I recognize and I play them differently.

And regarding the hand history, I have tried to grab the hand history in the past, but BOL shows the hand histories graphically (example of a hand attached). I don't know how to grab a text format that is convertible here.
 

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fundiver199

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It turned out he had AJ.

That is indeed a weird bet, and if you see something like this a lot in the player pool, that obviously pushes it a lot more towards a call. One possible explanation is, he failed to notice, there was a 1-liner on the board, and then he thought, so would have bet a Q on the turn, so his AJ had to be best. I dought he turned it into a bluff, although that is of course also possible.

And regarding the hand history, I have tried to grab the hand history in the past, but BOL shows the hand histories graphically (example of a hand attached). I don't know how to grab a text format that is convertible here.

It seems like the site is not supported by PT4, so probably there are no downloadable hand histories.
 
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