$10 NLHE 6-max: Set of Qs in Threeway

[blueskies]

I open to 30c from UTG with QdQh. BTN calls and BB calls.

8c2sQc flop.

BB checks, I cbet 60c into 95c pot. Both call.

Turn is the Ts. Pretty sure that gives at least one of them a straight draw IF they didn't have J9 and made a straight already.

I bet $1.90 into $2.75 pot. Should I have overbet this instead? I have a problem where I underbet when I want calls. They both must have some piece of the board. An overbet will punish them for chasing draws. On the other hand, draws have been hitting so much against me on the river that I am afraid of inflating the pot.

The river is Kh.

SB checks. I thought about betting but then AJ came to my mind. I just had a sense of dread that one of them has AJ. I checked and BTN checked.

I know in general that's bad passive play but lately my flopped sets have been no good when they call the flop and call the turn as the river completes their straight and I've paid them off. So I decided to just check call if BTN bets.

If you were to bet in this situation, what % of pot would you bet? Pot is $8.45 on the river. I only had a bit over $8 left. I guess you would bet and fold to any shove right?

Spoiler

BTN has AdQs. BB has AcJs. Yet another runner runner.

Feel like I really screw up on the bet sizing. If I bet pot on the flop, any draws will still stick around probably. Might have pushed out BB though.

It's hard to find a balance between betting big enough and keeping them around.

 

[GreenDaddy1]

I think I do bet larger on the turn, closer to pot. Can't fear the J9, being just one of many hands either could have. Charge the draws and set up an easy river third barrel. Admittedly then feel stupid and annoyed for value owning myself when AJ got there haha. But with a set I suspect it is fine in the grand scheme of things.

 

[eetenor]

I open to 30c from UTG with QdQh. BTN calls and BB calls.

8c2sQc flop.

BB checks, I cbet 60c into 95c pot. Both call.

Turn is the Ts. Pretty sure that gives at least one of them a straight draw IF they didn't have J9 and made a straight already.

I bet $1.90 into $2.75 pot. Should I have overbet this instead? I have a problem where I underbet when I want calls. They both must have some piece of the board. An overbet will punish them for chasing draws. On the other hand, draws have been hitting so much against me on the river that I am afraid of inflating the pot.

The river is Kh.

SB checks. I thought about betting but then AJ came to my mind. I just had a sense of dread that one of them has AJ. I checked and BTN checked.

I know in general that's bad passive play but lately my flopped sets have been no good when they call the flop and call the turn as the river completes their straight and I've paid them off. So I decided to just check call if BTN bets.

If you were to bet in this situation, what % of pot would you bet? Pot is $8.45 on the river. I only had a bit over $8 left. I guess you would bet and fold to any shove right?

Spoiler

BTN has AdQs. BB has AcJs. Yet another runner runner.

Feel like I really screw up on the bet sizing. If I bet pot on the flop, any draws will still stick around probably. Might have pushed out BB though.

It's hard to find a balance between betting big enough and keeping them around.

Thank you for posting

I have not looked at results

Your study point here is range refinement and how that range reacts to bet sizing.

On the flop we are crushing this board so betting larger to build a pot is good vs 10Nl standard players

Now we want to refine what range calls our flop bet. I will do a simple example you want to do a deep dive it will help you in every hand in the moment to have studied range refinement.

Would your V reraise AA KK AK AQ preflop? If yes that is gone from the range.

On flop we block Qx hands so very few Qx combos
Would V slow play 88 22? No gone

In these games our V will call flop wide so there is a wide range of hands that will call flop for any size it is a good exercise for you to list them out.

Turn we bet again what range are we targeting on the turn? What is calling any size and what is calling the smaller bet? Does Ax no draw call the turn bet? Does A8 call etc etc.

If we do not get thin value from A8 etc calling turn we always want to bet large. Good idea to really dive deep into this concept.

Confused here BTN and BB call flop but SB checks river. So are there still 2 players in or did the BB call only- assuming you meant BB checks.

On this river there are a lot of nut hands with AJs but also a lot of Kx hands that call turn as well. This is a river that we would normally bet but not all-in as the K hits our turn bluffs KJs and some value hands like KQ AK KK. Our V can make Kx calls here but may fold to a shove.

The key here is practicing range refinement on each street so that you are more confident in your river decisions.

Saw the results.

Vs 2 players on the river I check this because in the 10NL games J9 might have just called turn fearing the flush draw.


Hope this helps

 

[blueskies]

Yes that's a typo. I meant to say BB. BB and BTN were the two in the hand with me.

Once they both check called the flop I put BTN, a nut on something like TcJc and possibly top pair QJ, QK, AQ. He may float with AK (even if not suited clubs) and AcJc or AcTc as well. Basically he has something or he would have folded on the flop.

BB is the unknown but up to that point he felt like a fish, so he would be floating with a wide range. If he had anything though, it would probably be a flush draw.

On the turn I should have bet bigger. Back of my mind I was wary of J9 so I kept the bet small. I just let all these straight draws hitting against me recently scare me.
----
But, the recent streak is really hitting almost every time. Today I had yet another gutshot straight draw hit against me again. I had TPTK AQ and was getting 3:1 odds to call and held my nose and called... and paid off another dude. Dude had KT and hit a J on the turn for the gutshot completion. Of course, I don't see the missed draws since they fold on the river, so it can't be as frequent as the made straights that I do see.

Funny thing is not a single flush in the stretch. All straights.

So hard to not let previous showdowns affect my thinking on a given hand.

 

[eetenor]

Yes that's a typo. I meant to say BB. BB and BTN were the two in the hand with me.

Once they both check called the flop I put BTN, a nut on something like TcJc and possibly top pair QJ, QK, AQ. He may float with AK (even if not suited clubs) and AcJc or AcTc as well. Basically he has something or he would have folded on the flop.

BB is the unknown but up to that point he felt like a fish, so he would be floating with a wide range. If he had anything though, it would probably be a flush draw.

On the turn I should have bet bigger. Back of my mind I was wary of J9 so I kept the bet small. I just let all these straight draws hitting against me recently scare me.
----
But, the recent streak is really hitting almost every time. Today I had yet another gutshot straight draw hit against me again. I had TPTK AQ and was getting 3:1 odds to call and held my nose and called... and paid off another dude. Dude had KT and hit a J on the turn for the gutshot completion. Of course, I don't see the missed draws since they fold on the river, so it can't be as frequent as the made straights that I do see.

Funny thing is not a single flush in the stretch. All straights.

So hard to not let previous showdowns affect my thinking on a given hand.

Thank you for responding

Working on our mental game is very important because fear does effect our ROI.
Jared Tendler has 2 great books for that. You may want to work on that as my primary concern as you learn other skills.

If you continue to practice range refinement based on your player pool actions not just a GTO range it may help you make folds in spots where our V have few bluffs and no thin value hands. So we can fold to even gut shot suckouts if that is the only hand that makes sense for example.

If your V over play top pair etc often you will find yourself calling and losing to those
gut-shots but only because you have estimated their range and it does include a lot of thin value. Try not to beat yourself up about it just focus on river ranging.

However you stated that you are not seeing bluff hands at show down so the actions in your player pool lean to value only. So focusing on the river thin value range in this
player pool is a quick fix right now. If that thin value range is small we can overfold.

Hope this helps

 

[Vilgeoforc]

Your intuition did not fail you. But with a hand as strong as a set, I would bet the river. If the flush had hit, he would have checked. The size of bets on the flop and turn is quite standard.