$10 NLHE 6-max: Set Check Behind Turn?

A

AcesUTGFold

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Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players

UTG: $10.01 (100 bb)
MP: $10.79 (108 bb)
CO (Hero): $10.00 (100 bb)
BU: $14.39 (144 bb)
SB: $20.37 (204 bb)
BB: $6.75 (68 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with 2 2
1 fold, MP calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.40, 3 players fold, MP calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.95) J 2 A (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $0.57, MP calls $0.57

Turn: ($2.09) Q (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $1.04, MP raises to $3, Hero calls $1.96

River: ($8.09) 6 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks

Flop: Should I rather play 3/4 bet or pot bet?
Turn: Better to check or even bet big?
 
John A

John A

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Turn bet is fine vs a fish here. The river is close in terms of turning your set into a bluff. It's one of those more rare spots that would make sense simply because you have Kd in your range way more than this fish. He either has a low flush, air, or maybe a badly played two pair. Air and two pair you beat of course, so depending on stats, getting to showdown might be ok, but if he's a tighter fish I'd consider bluffing river. Loose fish, then just check it down.
 
A

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Shouldn't I bet pot directly on the flop here?
 
eetenor

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Shouldn't I bet pot directly on the flop here?


Thank you for posting.

The why of bet sizing is important. What will our Villain do with their range if we bet pot on flop? What do we want them to do?

If our V does not fold anything then bet pot.
We are not just thinking about getting called on 1 street- our Goal now is to get the V's stack so we do not want a weak Ax hand to fold turn when we bet again on turn- we do not want them folding on river either we want their stack.

Hope this helps
:):)
 
Tigroslav

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100 BB's stacks I would be looking to get to a cheap showdown with the apsolute lowest possible set. Its very often you will be stacked set vs set when betting and getting called
compared to just a few small wins when they fold.
Pot control is order of the day here IMO.
 
IADaveMark

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Normally I would say you check back the flopped set when you are heads up. Slow-playing heads up is fine but vs 2+ it can get messy. That said, the 2 diamonds on the boards make me nervous. You might go ahead and 1/2 pot it just to chase out draws but keep in someone who either hit the A or J (which you did).

However, the Q on the turn would make me nervous. Flush got there, straight got there. And then your 1/2 pot get check-raised 3x. Not cool. At that point, bottom set doesn't look very sexy.

Regardless of whether you are up against a flush or a straight, you have to pretty much boat up by pairing the board (or hit the case 2 for quads). That gives you 10 outs going into the river. (AAAQQQJJJ2) So you are going to be 21% or 4:1. You are being asked to call ~2 into 6 which is 3:1. So you need 25% but are only at 21%. And that's if you are against a straight or flush. If they have AA, QQ, or JJ, you are set over set and pairing the board does not help.

So, while the check/check on the river was good (Villain might have been trapping on the river rather than a value bet), I would have probably bailed after the XR on the turn.
 
A

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Normally I would say you check back the flopped set when you are heads up. Slow-playing heads up is fine but vs 2+ it can get messy. That said, the 2 diamonds on the boards make me nervous. You might go ahead and 1/2 pot it just to chase out draws but keep in someone who either hit the A or J (which you did).

However, the Q on the turn would make me nervous. Flush got there, straight got there. And then your 1/2 pot get check-raised 3x. Not cool. At that point, bottom set doesn't look very sexy.

Regardless of whether you are up against a flush or a straight, you have to pretty much boat up by pairing the board (or hit the case 2 for quads). That gives you 10 outs going into the river. (AAAQQQJJJ2) So you are going to be 21% or 4:1. You are being asked to call ~2 into 6 which is 3:1. So you need 25% but are only at 21%. And that's if you are against a straight or flush. If they have AA, QQ, or JJ, you are set over set and pairing the board does not help.

So, while the check/check on the river was good (Villain might have been trapping on the river rather than a value bet), I would have probably bailed after the XR on the turn.

If we give him that hand range you mentioned then a fold is probably the right decision at the turn.
The only question is whether he always has these hands in his hand range.
If he has AA,QQ,JJ sets then he will have AQo AQs often enough. If I am wrong please let me know what you think.
 
IADaveMark

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If we give him that hand range you mentioned then a fold is probably the right decision at the turn.
The only question is whether he always has these hands in his hand range.
If he has AA,QQ,JJ sets then he will have AQo AQs often enough. If I am wrong please let me know what you think.
Obviously AA would have 3-bet pre so you can pretty much rule that out. QQ may have as well. JJ would be happy to simply call pre.

AQ is a possibility like you mentioned and he was tickled with his top 2 on the turn. But remember that, for him, the same dangerous board was in effect. If he has top 2, is he afraid that the straight got there? The flush got there?

Could you have come up with a story that makes you feel better about calling the check raise? Sure. But how do you want to find out you are wrong?
 
eetenor

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Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players

UTG: $10.01 (100 bb)
MP: $10.79 (108 bb)
CO (Hero): $10.00 (100 bb)
BU: $14.39 (144 bb)
SB: $20.37 (204 bb)
BB: $6.75 (68 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with 2 2
1 fold, MP calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.40, 3 players fold, MP calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.95) J 2 A (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $0.57, MP calls $0.57

Turn: ($2.09) Q (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $1.04, MP raises to $3, Hero calls $1.96

River: ($8.09) 6 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks

Flop: Should I rather play 3/4 bet or pot bet?
Turn: Better to check or even bet big?


Thank you for posting

Do you use the Equilab App? If not it is free just google it and download for free. You can then use it to estimate a range on turn for V and see what equity a set of 2's has vs a full range including semi-bluffs.

Then decide it the V you play are only XR nuts here if so easy fold.

The exercise of building a range is the study point that will help us most here.

Hope this helps
:):)
 
A

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Board: A:diamond:2:diamond:J:club: Q:diamond:
Equity Win Tie
MP2 37.07% 37.07% 0.00% { 2h2s }
MP3 62.93% 62.93% 0.00% { Td8d, 9d8d, 9d7d, 8d7d, 8d6d, 7d6d, 7d5d, 6d5d, 6d4d, 5d4d, KTo, QJo }


If we give this hand range on his Raise then according to Equilab I would have 37%.
Unfortunately I don't know how realistic this limp hand range is.
 
puzzlefish

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If you have no notes on your villain, you can probably give them the benefit of the doubt on the turn when you get raised and let your bottom set go.

As played it looks a lot like a flush of some sort and I doubt a bluff on the river won't get called either. What fish raises on this turn with anything less than a flush? Or is this even a fish?

I think your bet on the flop is fine. I would check the turn and try to get to showdown without it costing a lot. Turn action is definitely a fold for me.
 
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