$10 NLHE 6-max: OOP QQ facing called 4-bet PF and Ace hits flop Vs. 25% 3bet villain

[mrmonkey]

$10 NLHE 6-max: OOP QQ facing called 4-bet PF and Ace hits flop Vs. 25% 3bet villain

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 22/16/0.4

Villain stats are over just 37 hands.

Aggressive Freq: 22% - PF3bet 25% (4/16)


Full Tilt - $0.10 NL RUSH (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (UTG): $14.18
MP: $11.19
CO: $7.32
BTN: $19.45
SB: $7.95
BB: $7.57

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has Q:heart: Q:club:

Hero raises to $0.30, MP raises to $0.90, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $3.00, MP calls $2.10

Flop: ($6.15, 2 players) A:heart: 5:heart: 8:diamond:
Hero bets $4.00, MP calls $4.00

Turn: ($14.15, 2 players) 5:diamond:
Hero ???

3 Questions:

1. Raise more pre? Why or why not?
2. Should we not lead flop here?
3. After calling the flop, is villain's range wide enough to justify a shove? Or is this a clear check/fold?

 

[c9h13no3]

1. Raise more pre? Why or why not?
2. Should we not lead flop here?
3. After calling the flop, is villain's range wide enough to justify a shove? Or is this a clear check/fold?

1) Your 4-bet size is fine, if anything its too large. $2.30ish would be my standard 4-bet size here. But since villain is so spewy with the 3-bets, we can 4-bet larger.
2) The reason to check would be to induce bets/bluffs from worse, or to get him to be more likely to call on later streets. I probably bet the flop if I'm playing the hand. But I also 4-bet smaller, and c-bet smaller, that way I can fold later. The way you've played it, you've given yourself no option but to get all in.
3) You can't check/fold, the pot is huge in relation to your stack. If he shoves, you're getting 4.4:1. So if it goes lose, lose, win, lose, lose, you're making a profit. Plus we've already established that our opponent 3-bets super wide, so giving up against him is pretty bad.

Also, you can c-bet smaller, around 2.75 would be good. I probably bet the flop, and then shove the turn as played. You're just too committed to check/fold the turn.

 

[WVHillbilly]

1) Your 4-bet size is fine, if anything its too large. $2.30ish would be my standard 4-bet size here. But since villain is so spewy with the 3-bets, we can 4-bet larger.
2) The reason to check would be to induce bets/bluffs from worse, or to get him to be more likely to call on later streets. I probably bet the flop if I'm playing the hand. But I also 4-bet smaller, and c-bet smaller, that way I can fold later. The way you've played it, you've given yourself no option but to get all in.
3) You can't check/fold, the pot is huge in relation to your stack. If he shoves, you're getting 4.4:1. So if it goes lose, lose, win, lose, lose, you're making a profit. Plus we've already established that our opponent 3-bets super wide, so giving up against him is pretty bad.

Also, you can c-bet smaller, around 2.75 would be good. I probably bet the flop, and then shove the turn as played. You're just too committed to check/fold the turn.

Why are you shoving the turn?

 

[c9h13no3]

Why are you shoving the turn?

I think he calls wider than he bets himself.

 

[WVHillbilly]

I agree. So with a villain this passive (small sample I know) can we not expect him to check behind without an Ace on the turn but still call his last $4 when we shove the river?

 

[c9h13no3]

I agree. So with a villain this passive (small sample I know) can we not expect him to check behind without an Ace on the turn but still call his last $4 when we shove the river?

What good does that do us? The only difference then between checking and betting is that hands that we beat get a free card. Unless you're advocating a check/fold.

 

[WVHillbilly]

No I don't think we can check/fold. Pot is too big relative to his stack for that like you said.

I don't know I really don't get this guy's stats at all. 25% 3bet but an AF of .4? So he's only aggro preflop and then turns into a station?

 

[c9h13no3]

I don't know I really don't get this guy's stats at all. 25% 3bet but an AF of .4? So he's only aggro preflop and then turns into a station?

Probably just a run of good cards. 4/16 isn't a big sample size. I'd guess he's just a bad stationy TAG who's read something about 3-betting more?

 

[mrmonkey]

Probably just a run of good cards. 4/16 isn't a big sample size. I'd guess he's just a bad stationy TAG who's read something about 3-betting more?

This is probably it -- In restrospect I think this was a bad 6-max nit/TAG that was running semi-good preflop over a few dozen hands and decided to start 3betting light with any pp/ace-broadway pf because he heard it's good to do. FWIW, I led with a shove on the turn and he turned up AJo.

I totally neglected my bet sizing in relation to stack sizes when considering my preflop 4bet, and didn't have a ready plan in the event the flop showed A or K (42% likelihood). In review I realized with only $4.00 effective stacks on the turn that I had committed myself to the pot with my flop bet. I'll have to make sure to address this in the future.

 

[mrmonkey]

Also, you can c-bet smaller, around 2.75 would be good.

I've been thinking about this hand a little more, and isn't such a tiny bet on the flop pretty obvious that we're scared of the ace? I mean, our 4bet range is probably QQ+ and AK... if we've got AK or AA, we're aiming to get it in on the turn, no?

With such a passive villain... would it actually be so horrible to just c/f the flop? Only maybe KQs calls our bet here that doesn't have us beat, and any hand we are ahead of he probably checks back.

I stoved a range of QQ-88,AJs+,KQs,AJo+,KQo for this villain on this flop, which I think is reasonable for his PFR and 3bet... equity is:

Hand 0: 46.194% { QcQh }
Hand 1: 53.806% { QQ-88, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }

As he is so passive post-flop, he is probably only betting the flop with an ace or a set of 8's and checking the rest... perhaps? Or am I reading too much into just 37 hands of data?

 

[WVHillbilly]

In 4bet pots your standard cbet doesn't need to be very big at all. It's very easy to get AI on the turn even if you bet 1/2 pot (or even less) on the flop.

Here even if you only bet $1 on the flop the pot, if called, is going to be more than the smallest remaining stack on the turn.

Had your 4bet size been a bit smaller and your flop bet been in the 1/2 pot range, you could have c/f the turn.