€10 NLHE 6-max: Not sure if I played 2 pair correctly here?

I

ilostmysoul

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€10 NLHE 6-max: Not sure if I played 2 pair correctly here?

Hey you guys remember telling me to learn about bankroll management instead of hitting NL5 tables with a bankroll of 20€? Today I hit NL10 with a bankroll of 10€. Let's get this out of the way. The reason I did that is because I want some time away from the tables while I focus on my school work and the end of the first semester that will last until mid-February (I know, it's not exactly intuitive). And I thought I could withdraw my 10€ at once. But the poker site didn't let me. Wire transfers apparently now start at 15€, which is new. So I got into an "all or nothing" mindset, and since I was playing with the other day's earnings, I didn't care. I know this is not profit in the long-term. I wasn't playing for the long-term. I only wanted to hit 15€, ended up hitting 36€, so... yeay. Here's the hand where I lost the most at once.


888Poker Snap, Hold'em No Limit - €0.05/€0.10 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

aniraco (UTG): €21.02 (210 bb)
Mulisha36 (MP): €13.31 (133 bb)
sorowsky61 (CO): €5.29 (53 bb)
Lavender32 (BU): €2.49 (25 bb)
Imanol3 (SB): €4.93 (49 bb)
ilostmycar (BB): €26.24 (262 bb)

Pre-Flop: (€0.15) Hero (ilostmycar) is BB with 4 9
aniraco (UTG) calls €0.10, 1 fold, sorowsky61 (CO) calls €0.10, 2 players fold, ilostmycar (BB) checks

Flop: (€0.35) Q 4 9 (3 players)
ilostmycar (BB) checks, aniraco (UTG) checks, sorowsky61 (CO) bets €0.23, ilostmycar (BB) raises to €0.69, aniraco (UTG) calls €0.69, sorowsky61 (CO) folds

Turn: (€1.96) J (2 players)
ilostmycar (BB) bets €1.18, aniraco (UTG) calls €1.18

River: (€4.32) Q (2 players)
ilostmycar (BB) bets €2.56, aniraco (UTG) calls €2.56

Total pot: €9.44 (Rake: €0.47)

Showdown:
ilostmycar (BB) shows 4 9 (two pair, Queens and Nines)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 13%, Flop: 71%, Turn: 82%, River: 0%)

aniraco (UTG) shows A A (two pair, Aces and Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 87%, Flop: 29%, Turn: 18%, River: 100%)

aniraco (UTG) wins €8.97

My question here is: that river bet. Was it bad? I didn't stop to think at the time for very long. I remember thinking I was beat. Any Q, any overpair on the flop, everything was calling here, and any bluff was folding to that bet. My plan was a bet/fold, but I'm wondering whether it would be better to check/call and catch all the bluffs. What do you guys think?

As a nice little bonus, the little hand that won me the night:


888Poker Snap, Hold'em No Limit - €0.05/€0.10 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

denzel9130 (UTG): €10.98 (110 bb)
MiaWallace16 (MP): €6.15 (62 bb)
pacoeduardo (CO): €11.73 (117 bb)
Marmelo5 (BU): €1.87 (19 bb)
ilostmycar (SB): €26.55 (266 bb)
LAZOLEON (BB): €28.80 (288 bb)

Pre-Flop: (€0.15) Hero (ilostmycar) is SB with A A
denzel9130 (UTG) raises to €0.22, 3 players fold, ilostmycar (SB) 3-bets to €0.66, 1 fold, denzel9130 (UTG) calls €0.44

Flop: (€1.42) 4 9 2 (2 players)
ilostmycar (SB) bets €0.81, denzel9130 (UTG) calls €0.81

Turn: (€3.04) 3 (2 players)
ilostmycar (SB) bets €1.30, denzel9130 (UTG) calls €1.30

River: (€5.64) A (2 players)
ilostmycar (SB) checks, denzel9130 (UTG) bets €2.82, ilostmycar (SB) raises to €11.28, denzel9130 (UTG) calls €5.39 (all-in)

Total pot: €22.06 (Rake: €1.10)

Showdown:
ilostmycar (SB) shows A A (three of a kind, Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 93%, Flop: 84%, Turn: 91%, River: 100%)

denzel9130 (UTG) shows 3 A (two pair, Aces and Threes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 7%, Flop: 16%, Turn: 9%, River: 0%)

ilostmycar (SB) wins €20.96

Thank you guys for reading, have an awesome 2020!!

EDIT: OH, btw. You will notice I check/raise a lot. Reason being I c-bet a lot of time, almost always, except on a very drawy board and multiway. My opponents knew this and they started floating me on the flop and betting turn to my checks, or betting flop if I checked. I was exploiting that to the best of knowledge by checking strong hands flop and then raising on the turn.

EDIT 2: My question is about the river portion of the first hand. I wrote "Turn" on the original post, but I meant river, I think my bet turn was good. Of course, any comments on any part of that hand are welcome!! I'm also pretty proud of that check on the rivered Ace in the second hand. 90% sure that check won me the hand. I think I went too far on the raise and any good player would have folded due to sizing, but I'm sure when she saw me check that Ace she though I didn't have it, and then made a crying call. I think she would have just called if I bet the ace. Idk though. Any opinions on that would be cool as well :)
 
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Q

quant1986

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I think your hand is max 2 street values here and UTG range after cold calling your flop raise is very strong.

Your line is repping 44/Q9/KT + weak flush draws and UTG range could have 44/Q9s/KdTd/QdJd/AdXd + random TT+

And you hand has blockers to villain value hands so yes I would prefer check-call the river especially if villain overbet. Sometimes villain could check back Ad flush draw as well.
 
Keith_MM

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If you need the 10$ on your account so badly that you can't leave it there until the end of semester you really shouldn't be playing poker with it in the first place and certainly not with a win or bust attitude.
 
Aballinamion

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Hi there ilostmysoul how you doing? Happy 2020! Let it come with a lot of happiness, strength, faith and royal flushes!
Thank you for posting your hands and for such a good explanation of your reasons.

You said first about bankroll management, and that you hit 10 NLHE having a bankroll of only 10 euros. If you want some time out of the table, just leave the bankroll there, for when you return. :D
Your greed to hit a bankroll of 15 will end up most of times with you losing your 10 euros.
Sometimes our mind is weak and find all of excuses to do crazy things in poker.
If I would play cash with a bankroll of only USD 10 (I utilize this currency), well, lol, in the first place I wouldn't play cash games with only USD 10, no even 2 NLHE, because I would have only 5 buy-ins.
I did it a lot in the past, and I learned how to deal when we are with so small a bankroll:

A) Never play cash games, unless we have at minimum 20 buy-ins, and if we are more aggressive at least 50 buy-ins of, 2 NLHE, for instance. No matter how good or lucky you are we are dealing with incomplete information: there are some days that the deck is not going to help us, or let us beat our opponents, even in spots where we are far ahead.
The first thing about poker is that there must be a responsible gambling.

B) Play the maximum freerolls as we can. Freerolls are a good tool for learning and practising some aspects of poker and to build a decent bankroll, which will not let us end with the rope on our necks.

C) Make a decent deposit, the general populations agrees that 30 buy-ins of the Cash Game you are playing is enough, but it will depend on how many tables do you play at once, and how aggressive and good you are. More tables and more aggressive play will make you run to real downswing sessions where you might end up losing more than 5 buy-ins in one session. Easily.

D) Never be oriented by results. Have a gameplan for the bankroll management until the strategies and tactics and the mindset for playing. Let's play the game in a responsible way, that is what all the poker rooms are praising about: responsible gambling. When we have only one buy-in and risk it all at once we look like a "tilted" player who doesn't know what do to and decided to get crazy and go for a "all or nothing", without need for it. (don't get me wrong, I am not calling you tilted, I just make a comparison).


Hand analysis

Hand 1) Fish limps from UTG, CO limp call and Hero BB checks.

First information: Both Villain UTG and Hero BB are Deep Stacked! (+200 BB)

I believe no one would be raising limpers from UTG with such a marginal hand as 94o.
If it comes a limp from CO or BTN, maybe a 95o would raise for stealing, even so very weak.
The check from the BB is almost mandatory when we have no information about villains (only that they limped?)

Pot Size: 3.5 blinds
Flop: Qs4d9d
Hero BB checks, UTG checks, CO bets 2.3 blinds, Hero raises to 6.9 blinds.

I dare to say this is the critical point of the hand. We like to call here in BB's shoes, more than raising, because we have a very strong value hand, but we don't have the NUTS by far. Besides, many Turns and Rivers are going to end up our actions. So why make the pot grow so much out of position in relation to two other players?
It is very likely a limper to end up showing Q9s, Q4s, which are two pair that are DOMINATING our range.
We like to raise here with some good semi-bluffs and with the nuts (QQ) when we are sure one of those fishes are going to give action, otherwise we would be turning the nuts into a bluff which is not good.
Besides, we never know for sure what is in the limp range of the population. One of those could easily have a pocket 44 for example that decided to limp. (or a KK who knows?)
Remember that when BB Check-Raises here, it is out of position against two players, so this is a high variance spot for excellence!
We don't need to play GTO against fishes, never actually, but we need to balance our range by position.
Okay, that there could many draws that are paying us, no matter how large we raise in this flop. But when Villain hit his equity it will not leave, and it will be hard for us to fold two pair when we already put so much chips in the pot.
Some may arguee that our two pair here needs a lot of protection, but we need to be very sure of villain's range, that they are paying with worse always, to do such an action.
What do we do most of times when we are in the BB? We Check and Fold.
A Check-Raise is most unbalanced here. We check-raise either when we have the nuts, or when we have a good bluff. In the given scenario we have a very good value hand, which is not the nuts and it is not a bluff. :bandit:

Completes a Straight and a double flush draw in the Turn

You bet 11.8 blinds for a pot of 19.6 blinds.

WOW! In a spot like that, versus a fish, I really don't love making the pot grow so much.
The Fish will never leave anything right now, and if we make the pot grow here in the turn (for the times villain check-raises turn with all of his bluffs and values, we are not going to fold here, never, but we can never go all in as well here), we are going all in river with Two Pair when we could be beat by a lot of straights, a lot of better two pair and a lot of flushes. Do we want to go all in River with Two Pair?
I don't believe right now that at 10 NLHE players are bluffing that much in the Turn, betting that high with air. (And calling big raises and bets with absolute air).
A simple T8 is killing our range right now. The UTG might have a king that will never fold, and if we make the pot grows before river, and in the river comes a diamond, even a spade, we never know, comes a King or a Ten, doubles the Jack or the Queen, are we really happy going all in with Two Pair versus unknown fish?

I believe the analysis stops here for several reasons:

A) We should not play Cash with so short Bankroll.
B) We should not bet the Flop because we hit two pair in a wet board and we are out of position in relation of two players. Also we are deep stacked, and there is another player also deep stacked in the hand.
C) We should not triple barrel bluff with a value hand which is not the nuts! (Because the nuts is triple barrelling VALUE) (IMO)

your line: Check-Raise Flop/Bet Turn/Bet River
Triple barrel bluff?

A Fish would never fold anything here, even Deep Stacked. Now I saw the result of the hand and as you can see you could have saved a lot of blinds in this hand, not because the Fish limped AA, but because it could have any J, any 9 with a strong kicker, any queen, etc. Even limping, the fish has the range advantage upon us on the BB, also it has position.
Also, when we bet that big in the Flop the fish is not calling with any random 22, or 33 to try to float you river losing for Two Pair, (94), which also is not the nuts!
When you make a pretty decent sizeable bet river, and Villain UTG re-raises you even bigger, or goes all in, are you really sure you have the best hand? It will be an "easy fold" here with your Two Pair?
Remember: 4.7 blinds was the rake for this hand. Only the rake, because the pot grow so much with no need for it.
Thanks and sorry for my candor.
The UTG Fish hits Two Pair river, why she/he didn't raise you? (not a rethorical question)

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
Last edited:
WVHillbilly

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Everything that calls your flop check-raise beats you on the river and never folds to a half-pot river bet. River is a check-fold.
 
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ilostmysoul

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I think your hand is max 2 street values here and UTG range after cold calling your flop raise is very strong.

Your line is repping 44/Q9/KT + weak flush draws and UTG range could have 44/Q9s/KdTd/QdJd/AdXd + random TT+

And you hand has blockers to villain value hands so yes I would prefer check-call the river especially if villain overbet. Sometimes villain could check back Ad flush draw as well.

So you would check/call here even if the board hadn't paired?

Thanks for answering and have a great decade!

EDIT: Didn't notice how many people had answered before replying. Great insights, thanks everyone for dropping in, have a great decade as well
 
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c0rnBr34d

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Hmmm, I think it's pretty close in a limped pot here between x/eval river and bet/fold. There are a ton of flush draws here that fold to our river bet. By betting small (I may have gone a tad smaller) we fold out the draws and protect ourselves from having to decide if we should call a much larger bet if we check and allow all the value hands and the missed draws to get us to fold sometimes. I'd size up turn slightly. The river is terrible. If it was a raised pot I think there would be much less flush draws. The straight draw (JT) got there on the river with a better two pair but as a bonus we could also get V to make an incorrect fold with Jx with our river bet. After all, our line does look a lot like Qx. So all in all I think I like this line in hand 1.

Your bankroll logic is bad though. Sounds like you're making excuses for why it's ok to play your whole bankroll in one session. If 10 euros is that distracting that you can't focus on school there is a deeper issue to deal with. It will still be there when you're done.
 
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