$10 NLHE 6-max: Lost value with Ace high flush?

T

TLRoyalFlush

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Pacific Poker - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players

CO: 115.8 BB
BTN: 99.4 BB
SB: 114.8 BB
Hero (BB): 111.4 BB
UTG: 101.7 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 5:spade: A:club:

fold, fold, BTN raises to 4 BB, fold, Hero calls 3 BB

Flop: (8.5 BB, 2 players) T:club: Q:club: 6:club:
Hero checks, BTN bets 5.6 BB, Hero calls 5.6 BB

Turn: (19.7 BB, 2 players) K:club:
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (19.7 BB, 2 players) 8:spade:
Hero bets 13 BB, BTN calls 13 BB

Hero shows 5:spade: A:club: (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 56%, Flop 68%, Turn 100%)
BTN mucks 8:heart: 9:club: (Flush, King High)
(Pre 44%, Flop 32%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins 43.5 BB


1) Should i have called his 4x btn raise? I need over 35% equity to be +EV, giving him a top 25% range (since it's such a big raise?) I have 44.37% equity so i'm happy. Is 3 betting out of the question here also?

2) Would a check raise have been better on the flop? Could fold out mid pairs etc that have decent equity against me, and could get value from other flush / straight draws?

Apart from that was relatively straight forward.
Any help would be great!
 
G

gustav197poker

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1) I like your call against the BTN player. In general this position has the widest aperture range. So we are ahead of many combinations. The only reason to raise is when the fold to 3-bet frequencies are very high, which you should better evaluate in the future when you have a large sample of hands of the villains you are facing. In this sequence 4x favors your range of call preflop. (BTN vs BB)
2) The x / r line is not suitable for this board, unless you have the nuts and the villain is a sticky player who will continue with a dominated hand. In general, you would be better off loading all of his bluffs and semi bluffs on the turn rather than isolating yourself with his valuable hands.
Greetings.
 
S

Sidetracked

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Honestly, I think in order to call the 4X open on the button, you would need a slightly stronger hand than A5o. A5s would be better.

Any time there are 4 to a flush on the board, it's tough to get value from good players with worse flushes. Occasionally you'll have the dream villain who will gladly ship in his stack whilst holding the naked 2 of clubs, but other than those times, be glad that you got what you did from the 9c.
 
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300HPGOD

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I dont think you missed any value here. Your bet on the river is probably as big as you can go and still get called by a lower flush. I think the only things that can be discussed is check raising the flop, donk leading the turn and should we have called pre. Ill start with pre and say I dont like it. Its a 4x raise and we have a hand that even if we hit an ace we never know we are good but at that point would be too good to fold until a few streets of betting. Yes the Button will be wide there but your hand does not play well post and will rarely makes the nuts (except in this instance). Getting on the check raising the flop, I dont like that either. Worse hands with air in them will just fold which is not terrible since we protect ace high but I still think we are better calling there and trying to disguise our ace of clubs. Same goes for leading on the turn as if we lead there our hand is probably face up unless villain thinks we are bluffing. Other than pre flop I like the way you played the hand and think you got as much out of it as you could considering you were going against someone who did not overplay their 9 high flush.
 
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gustav197poker

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It also influences if the villain usually opens at 4x from BTN or if this was an isolated case. Suppose the latter happened, why did villain open at 4x? Why do we defend from blind a lot? If the villain thinks that we defend the blind a lot, he will want to exploit us by opening 4x with strong hands to steal the maximum value from us. In which case A5o is pretty marginal here.
But if villain normally opens 4x from BTN, A5o is still a just hand to defend, but it is at least isn't marginal how when villain thinks we are quite open from BB.
Another point for consider call / pre depends on our postflop plan. If we concentrate on our hand and its respective equity, possibly the playability margin also will depend of the texture of the board and we will be a little more expectant of it to choose the subsequent actions. But if our range of defensive in BB shouldn't be perceived as very wide by the villain, we possibly have more opportunities to get him out of the pot, as his opening may be a sign of weakness. Because he can make us believe that he wants to get value from us, when in reality he does not defend his hands well in postflop.
 
John A

John A

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1) This isn't correct how you're thinking about this. Equity doesn't mean crud unless you know you're seeing all 3 streets. Being OOP, you instantly have an equity disadvantage in the range of -10% for average players, more if you're a below average reg. Despite that, it could be a call against certain players, but we have on info on your opponent. In a wind tunnel, it's a narrow call. Also because they raise bigger doesn't mean your opponent has a more narrow range. At these stakes it can mean just the opposite usually, and in that case a 3-bet is OK as well.


2) And here's the problem with being OOP. On most monotone boards, you don't want to CR, but here in particular it's also connected and you have a draw to a single nut flush. With a high card (Ace) and the nut flush, it's OK to call here, but still, it's marginal because it's hard to get paid when your ace or the 4th flush card comes in. You need to win roughly another 9bbs in the hand for it to be a profitable call on the flop, and monotone boards don't get paid off quite as often.
 
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