$10 NLHE 6-max: KQo Turns Top 2-Pair In Strange Multi-Way Pot

J

Jamalex

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iPoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 4 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/4eQU4EE

This was my 19th hand with the SB so no real info about him. Limped some of his hands preflop.

The BTN had a VPIP 23% and PFR 13% after roughly 500 hands. (Not sure if thats a decent sample size vs a player or not)

UTG: $13.26 (133 bb)
BU: $11.14 (111 bb)
SB: $8.80 (88 bb)
BB (Hero): $20.23 (202 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with K♣ Q♠
1 fold, BTN raises to $0.30, SB calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.90) 3♦ K♠ 8♥ (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $0.67, SB raises to $1.34, Hero calls $1.34, BTN calls $0.67

Turn: ($4.92) Q♣ (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, BTN calls $2, SB calls $2

River: ($10.92) 3♠ (3 players)
SB bets $5.16 (all-in), Hero calls $5.16, BU folds

Thanks for taking a look, any feedback is much appreciated!

Also I have multiple hands I was hoping to get reviewed. Should I wait a day before posting again? Not sure how this works and I don't want to be ignored or berated if I start posting too many hands at once. :D
 
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300HPGOD

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You can post many hands at once, the only thing I would recommend is make them 1 hand per thread with the most being two hands per thread. Sometimes people post half a dozen or so hands in one thread and it can deter people from replying. hand per thread makes it easier on the responders.

As far as this hand goes, its not a fun spot for sure. Its a 4 handed table so KQ off goes up in value so the flat to me is fine. I think you can make an argument for 3 betting here but then if you get called by the initial raiser (not sure what type of player they are and what their fold to 3 bet % is) then we are playing in a bloated pot out of position. I like just flatting as you did pre and seeing what the flop brings.

On the flop, I am checking as you did since I almost always advocate checking to the raiser and this board is very dry. Nothing other than an ace on the turn scares us so I am not worried about button checking behind. The min raise check raise by SB freaks me out and scares me although I would be calling the bet as you did. I would be scared though and not loving the spot we are in but do like now that at least we have position on the aggressor in the hand.

The turn might be the worst card in the deck for us or it could be fantastic, no way of knowing but we do know we are ahead of a lot of hands other than sets since I dont think AK flat calls pre flop and I dont think 3x or 8x that isnt two pair would raise on the flop. When it is checked to us here I dont mind checking behind but I actually prefer doing what you did and taking the lead. My reasoning behind it is I dont want to face some huge bet on the river ( we wind up facing one anyway) and maybe a bet on the turn by us slows down the SB to the point where they check to us on the river. If we are going to make a bet there I think your sixing is perfect as you are either ahead of some hand that villain is over valuing or you are against a set.

River is sick. There were no busted draws so we can rule that out as a bluff possibility. I also would rule out SB has KK or QQ since they should be 3 betting that and also we have a blocker to both. That leaves us a bluff, set of 8s, quad 3s, two pair or some hand like K10 that now feels more confident since their kicker is no longer in play with the board pairing. I am discounting 3x since I wouldnt think villain would raise that on the flop but it is possible. Given that there are so few combos of hands that beat us here (Set of 8s, quad 3s, 3x, and AA-QQ which I highly doubt) I am calling this river bet. I dont love calling here but just cant put villain on enough hands to beat us and could see them easily over valuing some Kx hand that is worse than ours. Again, this is 4 handed so they might be thinking any King is good here or chopping at worse. I would call and know I would be wrong some amount of the time but given we are getting 3 to 1 here its a call in my book.
 
Shumkoolie

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300HP makes some good points here, and I'd like to add my input here as well.

Generally speaking, at these stakes, unless you're facing a grinder who's playing at these lower stakes, people tend to play monsters pretty standard, where they are hoping that somebody else will do the betting for them, which was evident on the flop where they check-raised. The fact that they did this with TWO people left behind to act, I'm putting them on a very narrow range. They have 3's or 8's because:

1. They are going to overcall a raise out of position to set mine. The implied odds make this a profitable play.
2. They won't be 3-betting 33 ever, and VERY rarely if EVER with 88 because it leaves them open to a 4 bet which puts them in a gross spot.

I think where I would play this hand differently is I would check the turn, especially since button was the leader on the flop. I want to see how they'd play the turn before putting in any more money. Given the action on the flop, you almost have the ideal position here, because you have the advantage of knowing that OOP showed strength on the flop, and why not let the BTN take the lead again on the turn. Your bet sizing was fine since you did lead, but I'd rather check behind for pot control, and maybe BTN checks too.

Turning 2 pair is not the worst possible thing here because you do have a re-draw to a full house, and I'm probably taking a free card here.

The river doesn't help you, and given SB FINALLY leads out on the river, I'm almost certain I'm not holding the best hand, but given your investment to this point, a call almost has to be made here.

The only hands you're beating here are AK (small chance villain has it as they're likely 3 betting this hand), KJ, QJ.

If they played Aces like this, that's a bizarre play.

It would be sick though if they had KQ as well, that's a possibility too.

I'm interested in the result though.
 
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Jamalex

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You can post many hands at once, the only thing I would recommend is make them 1 hand per thread with the most being two hands per thread. Sometimes people post half a dozen or so hands in one thread and it can deter people from replying. hand per thread makes it easier on the responders.

As far as this hand goes, its not a fun spot for sure. Its a 4 handed table so KQ off goes up in value so the flat to me is fine. I think you can make an argument for 3 betting here but then if you get called by the initial raiser (not sure what type of player they are and what their fold to 3 bet % is) then we are playing in a bloated pot out of position. I like just flatting as you did pre and seeing what the flop brings.

On the flop, I am checking as you did since I almost always advocate checking to the raiser and this board is very dry. Nothing other than an ace on the turn scares us so I am not worried about button checking behind. The min raise check raise by SB freaks me out and scares me although I would be calling the bet as you did. I would be scared though and not loving the spot we are in but do like now that at least we have position on the aggressor in the hand.

The turn might be the worst card in the deck for us or it could be fantastic, no way of knowing but we do know we are ahead of a lot of hands other than sets since I dont think AK flat calls pre flop and I dont think 3x or 8x that isnt two pair would raise on the flop. When it is checked to us here I dont mind checking behind but I actually prefer doing what you did and taking the lead. My reasoning behind it is I dont want to face some huge bet on the river ( we wind up facing one anyway) and maybe a bet on the turn by us slows down the SB to the point where they check to us on the river. If we are going to make a bet there I think your sixing is perfect as you are either ahead of some hand that villain is over valuing or you are against a set.

River is sick. There were no busted draws so we can rule that out as a bluff possibility. I also would rule out SB has KK or QQ since they should be 3 betting that and also we have a blocker to both. That leaves us a bluff, set of 8s, quad 3s, two pair or some hand like K10 that now feels more confident since their kicker is no longer in play with the board pairing. I am discounting 3x since I wouldnt think villain would raise that on the flop but it is possible. Given that there are so few combos of hands that beat us here (Set of 8s, quad 3s, 3x, and AA-QQ which I highly doubt) I am calling this river bet. I dont love calling here but just cant put villain on enough hands to beat us and could see them easily over valuing some Kx hand that is worse than ours. Again, this is 4 handed so they might be thinking any King is good here or chopping at worse. I would call and know I would be wrong some amount of the time but given we are getting 3 to 1 here its a call in my book.

I wanna start out by saying your reply made me laugh so much. I practically had the same thinking as you did throughout this whole hand! I think if the SB had folded preflop I would have 3-bet KQo but when he called I liked a call better. Flopped top pair on a dry board and was happy for all of 10 seconds. When the SB did that little min raise on the flop, part of me wanted to just toss KQo into the muck but I can't really fold just yet:D
Then when I turned the Q I had the same reaction. I either just sucked out on whatever weird 2 pair he had or maybe a slow played AK(I really doubt this but maybe) or I just got given the card to pay off a set of 3's or 8's. As unlikely as AK was to flat I doubt even more QQ or KK would have flatted preflop and I block both of them so I only lose to 8 combos of hands right now. And also chop with the 4 combos of KQ left. Then that damn SB checks to me.....I wanted to check very much but decided a smaller bet for value was a better play. (Planning to check any river but a K or Q) Even though the button kept calling and calling I never thought he had a better hand then me at any point in the hand. Then the river comes a 3 Which makes his shove on the river hurt that much more..."Did this guy really have K3s and smash the river??? In reality I thought the hands that he could have that beat me were a set of 8's or quad 3's. (4 Combos) Sure he could have 3x hands theoretically but the min raise on the flop made me think not. If you had K3 or 83 on the flop I would be raising it up, not min raising. You hand is too vulnerable in my opinion. If he had QQ, KK, AA he was just going to have to flip it over and show me. So I again only could think of 4 value combos that beat me...although I was not surprised when the 33 flipped over for quads:(Just saw no way I could fold there vs a half pot shove.

Thank you for your reply and advice on posting hands as well! I'll probably put 1 or 2 more up right now:)
 
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Jamalex

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300HP makes some good points here, and I'd like to add my input here as well.

Generally speaking, at these stakes, unless you're facing a grinder who's playing at these lower stakes, people tend to play monsters pretty standard, where they are hoping that somebody else will do the betting for them, which was evident on the flop where they check-raised. The fact that they did this with TWO people left behind to act, I'm putting them on a very narrow range. They have 3's or 8's because:

1. They are going to overcall a raise out of position to set mine. The implied odds make this a profitable play.
2. They won't be 3-betting 33 ever, and VERY rarely if EVER with 88 because it leaves them open to a 4 bet which puts them in a gross spot.

I think where I would play this hand differently is I would check the turn, especially since button was the leader on the flop. I want to see how they'd play the turn before putting in any more money. Given the action on the flop, you almost have the ideal position here, because you have the advantage of knowing that OOP showed strength on the flop, and why not let the BTN take the lead again on the turn. Your bet sizing was fine since you did lead, but I'd rather check behind for pot control, and maybe BTN checks too.

Turning 2 pair is not the worst possible thing here because you do have a re-draw to a full house, and I'm probably taking a free card here.

The river doesn't help you, and given SB FINALLY leads out on the river, I'm almost certain I'm not holding the best hand, but given your investment to this point, a call almost has to be made here.

The only hands you're beating here are AK (small chance villain has it as they're likely 3 betting this hand), KJ, QJ.

If they played Aces like this, that's a bizarre play.

It would be sick though if they had KQ as well, that's a possibility too.

I'm interested in the result though.

I agree with you that a set of 3's or 8's make the most sense to me when he min raises like that but the button was the aggressor preflop so his checking on the flop when he is first to act is very standard to me and means nothing. Leading out would have been the abnormal play there. But on such a dry board there is not much for him to check raise for value. Set's, two pair AA and AK maybe but I very much doubt he has AA, KK or AK. (Min raises either mean very strong or very weak at the stake I play at from what I've seen) I would not have been surprised if he was bluffing trying to appear strong. If it was a normal raise size I would have been less worried honestly but the min raise scared me. When I turned top 2 pair I did think about checking when he checked to me, but if he did have one of those other value hands besides a set I can get value here from them, and if he did have a set then I am hoping on the river he checks to me to induce so I can check back. (unless its a K or Q on river which would be beautiful) I'm glad my bet size seemed correct for my choice, I find that to be the hardest part of poker for me right now. Then on the river of a 3 he went from 6 combos to 4 combos for his sets which is good but at the same time, the two pairs I tried to get small value from on turn just rivered a boat...As much as this hand sucked, I just never was going to fold the river. Maybe if I checked turn and called river he wouldn't have shoved and I could have saved money.

I appreciate the advice and the SB had quad 3's:rolleyes:Thank you for taking the time!
 
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