$10 NLHE 6-max: KJs Flops Trips Against 3better and Accidental Slowroll

[Jamalex]

Hello everyone! I have no one in my life who plays poker so I was looking around online and found this website. I have a hand I was hoping someone would look at and give me advice on. I'm 24 and have been playing poker since I was a kid, but I've only started studying and learning about the game in the last year. Any and all advice is much appreciated. I apologize if this is not how I'm supposed to do this, turns out when I posted this the first time it was in a thread for welcoming new users or something...oops.

NL10 6Max
I am in the CO with KcJc

LJ 30bb
HJ 132bb
CO 342bb
BTN 102bb
SB 67bb
BB 188bb

Action
LJ Folds
HJ Raises to 2.5bb
CO Calls
BTN Folds
SB Folds
BB 3bets to 15bb (6x)
HJ Folds
CO Calls

So my main question today is did I make a bad call here? Let me explain why I made it. In the previous hand I 3bet the HJ with KJs (same hand) and won half his stack 130bb the previous hand on a rivered king. But since the hand showed down, they will know I 3bet light sometimes. Thats why I decided to flat the initial raise in this hand. Now when the BB 3bets 6x the initial raise, I thought it seemed like a squeeze play to me. The HJ could be tilted and raised light. I am a LAG type player and very rarely just call unless I'm on the BTN or in the BB. So my hand feels slightly under represented, I'll be in position post flop, I close out the action preflop, the BB is 188bb deep and I have him covered.

Now I stopped you here because the rest of the hand could have influenced some opinions, you know! Like when you flop trip jacks...

Pot 31bb
Flop
3c Js Jh
BB bets 20bb
CO calls
Not much to say here

Pot 68bb
Turn
3c Js Jh 6s
BB bets 50bb
CO calls
Here maybe I should have reraised him allin but I thought that was a bad move because any bluff, flush draw or overpair he had could even fold to a shove. The only hand I thought would call was AJd which beats me so that makes it a silly play to make in my mind.

Pot 163bb
River
3c Js Jh 6s 3s
BB shoves 104bb
CO calls
Before I tell you what he had I want to say something. Until I typed this up I did not realize the 3 gave me a boat and pretty much the nuts. (he never would 3bet 33 preflop, he would just call and take a multiway flop and try to hit a set) I thought I had trip jacks with a king high kicker... I haven't misread a board in a long time, this was pretty bad. So I tanked for about 15 seconds counting his possible flushdraws... AKs, AQs, maybe A10s and AJd... I lose to those 4 hands. Now hands I beat are QQ KK AA hands with a spade in them and AKo with a spade possibly AQo with a spade. So I thought in the moment it was 4 hands I lost to and 5 I beat. Now since the shove was less then the pot I could profitably call math wise...or something. Which now having more time to count it was 19 combos I beat and 4 I lose to. COMBOS not hands! I'll learn someday. I did actually think of those hands during the actual hand but the math stuff happened after the hand ended to be honest. I should start learning to do it during the hand so it can help...

OF COURSE I actually had the nuts and chopped with AJd and beat everything else because I had a boat lol.

BB shows AsKh
"I got his bluff I called with trip jacks"

CO shows KcJc....a full house.......the nuts besides quad 3's..........which he can't have because he 3bet preflop...................................after tanking..............................................................................
Anyways I won 358bb and the Rake came in second with 18bb lol I hate rake
In my defence the 3 of clubs and 3 of spades were super far away from each other on the board!

Also I now understand why the other player insulted me (In spanish, had to google what it meant)

I hope it made you laugh just a little bit lol. Thanks for reading. If you have any advice I'd love to hear it. Never had someone review a hand I played so I figured I'd start with this one and see how it goes!

-Jamalex

 

[fundiver199]

Welcome to Cardschat and thank you for sharing this interesting hand. Preflop I think, both calling and 3-betting is fine. Against better players it is very good to mix it up, so you become less predictable. Calling a 3-bet with KJs is a little questionable, but definitely better when you are deep and in position. You just need to be ready to get away, when you flop one pair, since you are so often going to be dominated. Postflop I think, you played totally fine. Always nice to get maximum value, and all you need to do is hand him the rope to hang himself and continue pressing "call"

 

[UkoChebuko]

I think your call preflop is weak. You can call, if the HJ calls. Yes, you are with deep stacks. But your hand pretty rare will hit the nuts, I think the deep stacks actually doesn't matters. You expect pretty tight range from him. This is a squeeze vs HJ. HJ have 132bb, the people start to play more carefully (passive) with stacks more than 100bb.

Postflop OTT shove and call have pretty similar EV. I think it is better to shove. He can call with draw. And very rare you will see a bluff OTR. Shove OTT is little better at NL10. Very little...Imo...

" I am a LAG type player"


Friend, I see this very often from the beginners. Some "proud" for this, "I am such a badass". You are not a "Lag player", you use an aggro fish style. And you will break your head in the wall. Like all the rest. You see, they can't understand what is actually the LAG style. NIT, TAG, LAG are the same style with little "modifications". Postflop and preflop the NIT is playing only if the EV is obv, not a borderline EV. Suitable for the very low limits. High volume...The TAG don't play only with very borderline EV. He still have interest for the volume, but he can't fold so much, because the people are not so weak. The LAG want "any" EV, even zero EV. Even a little -EV (rakeback, image). This style is suitable only for the high stakes.

 

[Jamalex]

Against better players it is very good to mix it up, so you become less predictable. Calling a 3-bet with KJs is a little questionable, but definitely better when you are deep and in position.

Thanks so much for the reply! My intentions were to mix it up when I called the first raise so that is good I think. Now as for calling the 3-bet, I think the fact that I was really wondering if it was a bad call tells me it was absolutely a bad call.I think I really needed to hear someone else tell me it was. Thank you again I hope I have a little more put together hands I can post here for review next time!

 

[Jamalex]

I think your call preflop is weak. You can call, if the HJ calls. Yes, you are with deep stacks. But your hand pretty rare will hit the nuts, I think the deep stacks actually doesn't matters. You expect pretty tight range from him. This is a squeeze vs HJ. HJ have 132bb, the people start to play more carefully (passive) with stacks more than 100bb.

Postflop OTT shove and call have pretty similar EV. I think it is better to shove. He can call with draw. And very rare you will see a bluff OTR. Shove OTT is little better at NL10. Very little...Imo...

"I am a LAG type player"


Friend, I see this very often from the beginners. Some "proud" for this, "I am such a badass". You are not a "Lag player", you use an aggro fish style. And you will break your head in the wall. Like all the rest. You see, they can't understand what is actually the LAG style. NIT, TAG, LAG are the same style with little "modifications". Postflop and preflop the NIT is playing only if the EV is obv, not a borderline EV. Suitable for the very low limits. High volume...The TAG don't play only with very borderline EV. He still have interest for the volume, but he can't fold so much, because the people are not so weak. The LAG want "any" EV, even zero EV. Even a little -EV (rakeback, image). This style is suitable only for the high stakes.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply! As I said in the last reply I think I knew I made a bad call vs the 3-bet and I wanted someone who knows poker much much better then me to tell me it absolutely was. I decided to quote your whole answer here because I found a lot of useful information in it.

I believe your saying as players get deeper, they're (typically) less willing to play for all their chips then when they are at 100bb. So the BB was trying to take advantage of that as well when he squeezed. Hopefully I'm not misunderstanding this part!

I think it's interesting you prefer the shove in this spot OTT, that means my reasoning was totally wrongbut thank you that is good to know!

When I called myself a LAG player I just want to clarify what I meant. I am very much a new player. I started learning on upswingpoker.com and was playing following their charts for RFI, VS RFI and RFI VS 3-BET. Now the reason I call myself a LAG is simply because I have found a number of spots to deviate from the charts and play a little bit looser that have worked out well. I have learned very quickly to raise when the weak players limp in and 3-bet more often then I think I should. (seems to be the big money maker at the lowest stakes) I tend to float flops vs certain players when I catch a weak pair or backdoor draws in position and they tend to shut down when they have missed, and the ones who 3 barrel bluff I have notes on them so I know it's ok to hero call them with a weak pair sometimes(even high cards sometimes). People have shoved A10o all-in 100bb on me. Sometimes even weaker hands, it's crazy! They lead into me as the raiser constantly(at first this was annoying but I realized very quickly this is very good for me) as they usually have little to nothing when they do this, just a small piece of the board. So I can fold hands that missed, float with some hands like over cards, some draws and weak pairs and raise TPTK and better for value plus some very good and very bad draws for semi-bluffing. (I like to raise combo draws and also slip my gutters in their, especially when they are also over cards to the board)

This is a side note but I understand I should be tracking the hands I play so I can learn exactly what makes me money and what doesn't in the long run. If you have a program that you like to use that does this I would love to know! Thanks again for your detailed answer, it was very informative!:icon_stud

 

[UkoChebuko]

My answer was wrong . Vs very tight range FD is possible, but very rare. Call is the better option for sure. OTT...And also he can hit his Ace OTR. Clearly the call OTT is the better option. AI is even a mistake. Don't trust to anyone!

About the deep stacks. You know about the "implied odds". But there are also "reverse implied odds". As I said, I think on this limit vs HJ 132bb the squeeze will be with pretty narrow range. QQ+, AK, maybe JJ, maybe AQs, very rare KQs and AJs. Which board is very good for your hand!? Yes, AQT and JJx. But this is very rare. For the given price preflop. You will hit flush draw, straight draw, but postflop you often will see a huge bets. And they very often, mainly will be for value. With deep stacks. I mean not so profitable situations. I talk about all of this, because the argument (deep stacks). I don't think the position, deep stacks, dead money are enough to make a profitable call vs 15 blinds raise. Maybe vs 12 blinds, but not vs 15 blinds.

 

[Jamalex]

My answer was wrong . Vs very tight range FD is possible, but very rare. Call is the better option for sure. OTT...And also he can hit his Ace OTR. Clearly the call OTT is the better option. AI is even a mistake. Don't trust to anyone!

That makes me feel a little bit betterThank you for clarifying! I got another hand I'm gonna be posting as soon as I can put it together, where I was not as fortunate with KJs. If you have time I would always appreciate feedback!

 

[UkoChebuko]

And about this "Lag style" sh*t. I know about those charts. They are not good. Those ones, which are for free. Not for the micro...And the other things....You are clearly talking about an "aggro fish style". You can't understand me now, but you will. Soon...Several months.

 

[Jamalex]

UkoChebuko


I tried to message you but the site says I have to post more before I am allowed to message other members, rats. To keep my question basic at this point, are you saying I should give up this "Lag style" I think I play good and really tighten up my game if I want to be a winning player? Even if I come up with a range and play tighter, can I still find spots to deviate and exploit other players or is that pointless at the microstakes level? If your allowed to message me and if you have a recommendation for the percentage of hands I should play in each position at 6max 10NL I'd love to here it. I can obviously come up with my own range of hands but just curious what you suggest. i.e. no more then 10% from LJ or you should raise only 30% on the button. (Just an example of what I'm asking for) All I have to go on are the charts from upswing and I've read many places people do not believe upswing poker is very helpful. Thanks you for all your advice and I read your edit as well!

 

[UkoChebuko]

I will try to explain. With my ugly English . I hope some other beginners will see that. But not right now, my beer is over....

 

[UkoChebuko]

First , mate, I am pretty tight player, a "nit". But as default...Without any info. But if you see me how I play, you will think for me as "calling station", "an aggro fish", "maniac". Depends on that on which table you will see me. You see, I am not playing poker, the HUD is playing, I am just an observer. Do you understand? In this game you will win, if you have information. You will make a good profit, if you can read that info fast and correct. You never play without any info. At least you have the tendencies of the field. You are a beginner. We all was. You can't know about this call preflop with KJs. Seems right, a correct call. But it is not. I tell you that and you already know. Maybe you even understand why. And you will use this in other situations. You become better. I little bit...This is an info.

You see, I have seen a lot of players like you. And their results. Millions and millions hands. I know which hand is profitable. In which situation. Against different players. And why...We are talking about the micros. I have no rights to talk about higher stakes. And this players are not stupid, they are normal people. Like me and like you. There are not clever and dumb people. There are people with less knowledge and people with more knowledge.
And from that I know, you can't make a -EV call proftable one , if you are very good player. Only a little bit more EV. Let's say 1/3 from the blind. 0.30 blind...You see, this is not a "skills". This is an info. If you have info, you will make this -EV call a profitable situation. You can make a corect fold. You can call and use this info postflop.

Don't look at high stakes players at the live games. They have other skills, which we can't even understand. They play only at one table. They can't make a high volume. This is "now or never".

And about this styles. I already explained, but maybe you can't understand me. If you see some database, let's say you look at the UTG open raise range. And the profit. Let's say you look at 55. Profit with 55 from UTG. Small profit. Only part from the blind. The NIT will snap fold 55 from UTG, he don't care about this profit. And he must not. He even don't look at the other players. Maybe he even don't have a HUD. This is not a bad style. Can be the most profitable style on the certain limits, rooms, conditions. The TAG ...He is looking at the other players. And he will fold 55 sometime, but more often he will open raise. Sometime with 22 also. He knows why. The LAG...He raise with 22 without any "look" at the HUD. He don't have interest for the volume. He will look at the HUD if he have let's say J9s. Postflop is just the same. The NIT plays postflop very "tight". He bets only if the EV is so obv. Obv bet for value. He don't "search" for borderline EV, "thin value", borderline bluffs. And he must not. He don't have time. The LAG is thinking very deeply of any spot, he have interest even for zero EV. And he must. The image is important for him. The image is money for him. He have a lot of time to do that. The TAG is between NIT and LAG.

To be succesufull player you must know the correct style for your limits. You see, this styles are pretty similar. For NL10 as default you choice NIT or TAG, depends on the field. I would say "a nitty TAG" is the best. As default. Then you use a different ranges and decisions postflop depends on the info. "Little modifications"...

10% from LJ as default is not bad. But if you are good player at your limit, this 10% will be very rare. Without any info or on a very aggro table. More often you will use 13%. I will use, sorry. Sometime 19%.
I am not using 30% for the BTN. I am using 26% as default vs extreme aggro players on the blinds. 49% is my default range. Very often I use 100%, ATC. Sometime 76%. You see, I have some ranges, and I just "switch" between them depends on the info. But I am pretty tight as default. If I play NL10. Also the rake is a factor for this. There isn't a cap. In the "LAG waters" the rake is smaller. Mainly because the cap.

 

[UkoChebuko]

I would say that if you want to play more hands, you must become very good with the HUD. Then you will have "rights" to do that.

Amen!

 

[Jamalex]

I would say that if you want to play more hands, you must become very good with the HUD. Then you will have "rights" to do that.

Amen!

Thanks for taking the time, it was a little tough to understand a couple parts but I'm understanding a good amount of it! Some of the things you say I don't even think about when I play, which I hope I can change. I will be getting a HUD for sure which should help! I like your reasoning for tightening up my game and I think I'm definately gonna do that! I appreciate your advice alot thank you!