$10 NLHE 6-max: JJ's Can Be Tricky So Just Flop Top Set

J

Jamalex

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I tried posting this one with the cardschat option on drivehud, hope it looks better when I post it because it looks like an awful mess how it is...

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem 0.1(BB)
BB ($10.29) [VPIP: 18.9% | PFR: 10.8% | AGG: 41.7% | hands: 37]
UTG ($10) [VPIP: 26.7% | PFR: 22.9% | AGG: 39.2% | Hands: 133]
HJ ($31.20) [VPIP: 76.6% | PFR: 13.3% | AGG: 25.7% | Flop Agg: 10.3% | Turn Agg: 30.5% | River Agg: 54.1% | 3-Bet: 6% | 4-Bet: 25% | Hands: 133]
HERO ($19.74) [VPIP: 30.7% | PFR: 19.1% | AGG: 29.9% | Flop Agg: 29.1% | Turn Agg: 34.1% | River Agg: 25.6% | 3-Bet: 8% | 4-Bet: 11.1% | Cold Call: 27.5% | Hands: 990]
BTN ($26.31) [VPIP: 26.2% | PFR: 17.8% | AGG: 28.7% | Flop Agg: 25.9% | Turn Agg: 39.3% | River Agg: 17.1% | 3-Bet: 6.1% | Fold to 3-Bet: 85.7% | 4-Bet: 0% | Hands: 346]
SB ($10) [VPIP: 22.5% | PFR: 12.7% | AGG: 20.1% | Hands: 446]

Dealt to Hero: J:spade: J:diamond:

UTG Folds, HJ Raises To $0.35, HERO Calls $0.35, BTN Raises To $1.55, SB Folds, BB Folds, HJ Calls $1.20, HERO Calls $1.20

Hero SPR on Flop: [3.79 effective]
Flop ($4.80): J:heart: 4:spade: 8:club:
HJ Checks, HERO Checks, BTN Bets $2.52 (Rem. Stack: $22.24), HJ Folds, HERO Calls $2.52 (Rem. Stack: $15.67)

Turn ($9.84): J:heart: 4:spade: 8:club: 9:heart:
HERO Checks, BTN Checks

River ($9.84): J:heart: 4:spade: 8:club: 9:heart: 7:club:
HERO Bets $4.65 (Rem. Stack: $11.02), BTN Calls $4.65 (Rem. Stack: $17.59)

BTN shows: A:spade: A:diamond:

HERO wins: $18.08

I think this hand could have been played many different ways and would love to hear some different strategies and/or advice on how I played it!
 
S

Sidetracked

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It's a shame the way the board ran out. Being as deep as you were with the villain, I actually like a check/raise on the flop. Getting 200 BB in by the river is going to be tough, so raising the flop is a good place to start.
 
M

mktpppr

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Hello,

P: fine
F: fine, I would check/raise big ($7.50) vs perceived range advantage of villain betting strong vs 2 opponents.
T: as played, fine.
R: we have to check/call river vs normal bet, it sucks when we get re-jammed on. Sucks too if we check and villain jams.
 
Last edited:
Shumkoolie

Shumkoolie

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I think you lost value there, and the board ran out so gross for top set. You should have led out on the turn, something like 35-40% of pot. If you're facing an overpair, they're likely going to call (I did not click on the spoiler), and they may even raise because the board has straight draws, to protect their hand, which is exactly what you want. If they have AK, they're going to fold anyway. But based on their stats, they're not getting too out of line.

Don't depend on people to do the betting for you, do it yourself. You just might get paid off very well, but if this is the line you're always taking, you're leaving so much money on the table.

The river card is actually quite bad for you because Tx gets there, but based on earlier streets, you're almost never facing Tx from villain. But also, if villain has an overpair, if they are capable of doing it, they will fold.
 
J

Jamalex

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I think you lost value there, and the board ran out so gross for top set. You should have led out on the turn, something like 35-40% of pot. If you're facing an overpair, they're likely going to call (I did not click on the spoiler), and they may even raise because the board has straight draws, to protect their hand, which is exactly what you want. If they have AK, they're going to fold anyway. But based on their stats, they're not getting too out of line.

Don't depend on people to do the betting for you, do it yourself. You just might get paid off very well, but if this is the line you're always taking, you're leaving so much money on the table.

The river card is actually quite bad for you because Tx gets there, but based on earlier streets, you're almost never facing Tx from villain. But also, if villain has an overpair, if they are capable of doing it, they will fold.


I agree, looking back I wish I would have check-raised the flop or just led out on the turn. If he is going to check back AA in this spot then he will checking back almost his entire range in that spot as well IMO. I appreciate the advice, and as for the river I thought for a long time before I bet it and the only 10's he could have are J10s (1 combo) 109s (3 combos) and Pocket 10's (6 Combos). If he had A10s in his range and bet flop he would most definately have bet turn. I really did not think he had a 10 here, thought AJs or Overpair but didn't want to bet too much and make him think I could have a 10 and fold.
 
T

Transitley

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I agree, looking back I wish I would have check-raised the flop or just led out on the turn. If he is going to check back AA in this spot then he will checking back almost his entire range in that spot as well IMO. I appreciate the advice, and as for the river I thought for a long time before I bet it and the only 10's he could have are J10s (1 combo) 109s (3 combos) and Pocket 10's (6 Combos). If he had A10s in his range and bet flop he would most definately have bet turn. I really did not think he had a 10 here, thought AJs or Overpair but didn't want to bet too much and make him think I could have a 10 and fold.


Hello Jamalex, I'm enjoying this hand analysis, I'm very much learning the game, so had a question, why do you put him on only having J10s (and hence one combo), why not J10o? Is it to do with his HUD stats or a typical range for that type of player?

I initially thought, he's not got any hand with a 10 in it other than TT with the preflop reraise but then I thought he might be thinking of a squeeze and that brings in all the hands you have mentioned - high level summary level I know, but I'm glad that it matches what others have said. Learning lots from the hand analysis on this forum.
 
John A

John A

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Considering the board and your position after the flop c-bet, I'd heavily lean towards CRing the flop.

As played, considering it's a 4-bet pot, a river value bet here is fine.
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

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Considering the board and your position after the flop c-bet, I'd heavily lean towards CRing the flop.

As played, considering it's a 4-bet pot, a river value bet here is fine.
Correction it's a 3bet pot but I still bet river as well.

OP, why didn't you consider 3betting pre? I think a 3bang is appropriate here because:
- HJ looks like a huge fish
- calling with two more people to act behind you puts you in awkward spots when a later position decides to 3bet and when they decide to just call, the less likely your hand is to win post flop (plus you'll be out of position)
 
J

Jamalex

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Correction it's a 3bet pot but I still bet river as well.

OP, why didn't you consider 3betting pre? I think a 3bang is appropriate here because:
- HJ looks like a huge fish
- calling with two more people to act behind you puts you in awkward spots when a later position decides to 3bet and when they decide to just call, the less likely your hand is to win post flop (plus you'll be out of position)


I did consider it, I chose to flat originally because I was trying to trap vs a player who would likely just fold to a 3-bet. (Which he did when BTN 3-Bet) Then with my disguised jacks I flatted the buttons 3-bet. I would not make that play every time I would 3-bet more often then not but this time it is just the play I decided to make.:)
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

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I did consider it, I chose to flat originally because I was trying to trap vs a player who would likely just fold to a 3-bet. (Which he did when BTN 3-Bet) Then with my disguised jacks I flatted the buttons 3-bet. I would not make that play every time I would 3-bet more often then not but this time it is just the play I decided to make.:)
what made you think he folds to 3bets a lot? Idk, at these stakes I don't think there's any need to get fancy. If, for some reason, he does fold to 3bet a lot, then just 3bet him even wider in the future
 
J

Jamalex

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what made you think he folds to 3bets a lot? Idk, at these stakes I don't think there's any need to get fancy. If, for some reason, he does fold to 3bet a lot, then just 3bet him even wider in the future


I don't really know why your pushing your point again but like I said, I agreed with you and normally would 3-bet. I just decided to flat and trap my hand that time. It's not a very "fancy" play IMO but if you are never calling with a big pair once in a while then you can never have those hands in that spot. I understand what your saying that at NL10 I don't need to think/make plays like this but I disagree, I find it very profitable to trap hands once in a while. People at this stake sometimes make the weirdest plays when they think your weak. I've had people shove their 100bb stack on me on the flop to win the 6bb in the pot more times then I can count, and when they've been called they don't usually have much if anything. And I have stacked those people when I trap good hands or just happen to flop well when they have absolute garbage. It's not that I prefer this play I simply think it is profitable to trap once in a while particularly at this stake with the maniacs that play NL10.:D
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

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I don't really know why your pushing your point again but like I said, I agreed with you and normally would 3-bet. I just decided to flat and trap my hand that time. It's not a very "fancy" play IMO but if you are never calling with a big pair once in a while then you can never have those hands in that spot. I understand what your saying that at NL10 I don't need to think/make plays like this but I disagree, I find it very profitable to trap hands once in a while.
Sorry, the reason I'm talking about preflop is because usually awkward spots occur due to previous actions.

It's not a very "fancy" play IMO but if you are never calling with a big pair once in a while then you can never have those hands in that spot.
I call it fancy because instead of the standard 3bet line, you're flatting a great hand with people left to act behind you who could end up putting you in weird spots. I'll give it to you that sometimes trickier plays like this are great to balance your range as you seem to be eluding to but they're only good in certain circumstances like who acted previously and who left to act behind you. I won't comment anymore but I seriously think you're actually losing value long-term by not 3betting this whale and allowing others to come along for cheap.
 
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