$10 NLHE 6-max: Fold vs Bet on the Flop?

[AcesUTGFold]

Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players


UTG: $12.15 (122 bb)
MP (Hero): $10.25 (103 bb)
CO: $11.75 (118 bb)
BU: $12.63 (126 bb)
SB: $23.76 (238 bb)
BB: $10.59 (106 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP with Q♦ Q♣
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, 2 players fold, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.95) 9♣ 8♣ 5♣ (3 players)
BB bets $0.95, Hero calls $0.95, CO folds

Turn: ($2.85) J♠ (2 players)
BB bets $2.85, Hero calls $2.85

River: ($8.55) 3♦ (2 players)
BB bets $6.49 (all-in), MP (Hero) folds

Flop: With QQ I already feel uncomfortable here against his donk-bet plus there is another player after me.
BB of course has many flushes, straights and two-pairs in his hand range.

Turn: Now I only play against BB but what overplay is he doing here? He can still have his flushes, straights and two-pairs and J9o/J9s comes in.

River: For me a clear fold on the blank card.

 

[magnus369]

Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players


UTG: $12.15 (122 bb)
MP (Hero): $10.25 (103 bb)
CO: $11.75 (118 bb)
BU: $12.63 (126 bb)
SB: $23.76 (238 bb)
BB: $10.59 (106 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP with Q♦ Q♣
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, 2 players fold, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.95) 9♣ 8♣ 5♣ (3 players)
BB bets $0.95, Hero calls $0.95, CO folds

Turn: ($2.85) J♠ (2 players)
BB bets $2.85, Hero calls $2.85

River: ($8.55) 3♦ (2 players)
BB bets $6.49 (all-in), MP (Hero) folds

Flop: With QQ I already feel uncomfortable here against his donk-bet plus there is another player after me.
BB of course has many flushes, straights and two-pairs in his hand range.

Turn: Now I only play against BB but what overplay is he doing here? He can still have his flushes, straights and two-pairs and J9o/J9s comes in.

River: For me a clear fold on the blank card.

In my honest opinion, when you end up calling the pot-sized turn bet again, what line of play do you think villain will take? Because clearly to me he would bet at least half a pot on the river blank, even if he misses a draw, or even with clubs, imagine he has Ac9s, he can follow this super aggressive line and because you believe he's ahead flop, turn and river, in my opinion you were wrong to not call, there are many combos of hands that can follow this line, and I think that if you hit clubs, you should also reconsider your opponent's size to call with just a queen-high flush.

What I would have done in the same situation would have been to raise the flop to isolate draws and avoid being between two players, the BB and the CO, it would be something around 2.75x to 3.85x, and if I was comfortable that the villain is fish/donkey , why not all in? a villain who cuts the aggressor's action and bets on this size he seems more to want to scare you than to want to extract value.

Sorry if I offended you by any chance, I didn't mean to get to this point, I just wanted to leave my comment, so that we can build better game ideas together.

 

[eetenor]

Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players


UTG: $12.15 (122 bb)
MP (Hero): $10.25 (103 bb)
CO: $11.75 (118 bb)
BU: $12.63 (126 bb)
SB: $23.76 (238 bb)
BB: $10.59 (106 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP with Q♦ Q♣
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, 2 players fold, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.95) 9♣ 8♣ 5♣ (3 players)
BB bets $0.95, Hero calls $0.95, CO folds

Turn: ($2.85) J♠ (2 players)
BB bets $2.85, Hero calls $2.85

River: ($8.55) 3♦ (2 players)
BB bets $6.49 (all-in), MP (Hero) folds

Flop: With QQ I already feel uncomfortable here against his donk-bet plus there is another player after me.
BB of course has many flushes, straights and two-pairs in his hand range.

Turn: Now I only play against BB but what overplay is he doing here? He can still have his flushes, straights and two-pairs and J9o/J9s comes in.

River: For me a clear fold on the blank card.

Thank you for posting.

To study this hand you want to build a range for the Villain that would take these actions.

We do that by using data from our player pool to estimate what these be sizes represent.

Her is an simple example of the questions we ask ourselves to estimate the V range.

1 Why lead the nuts on flop?
2 Why lead 2 pair hands OOP into 2 players? No flush blockers! Why not XR
3 Why keep betting pot sized bets?
4 Why expect to be called on turn to get max value from sets and straights?
5 What range of weaker hands might his V have?

If you take the time to dive deeply into this spot by data mining your player pool it will help in game.


Hope this helps

 

[AcesUTGFold]

In my honest opinion, when you end up calling the pot-sized turn bet again, what line of play do you think villain will take? Because clearly to me he would bet at least half a pot on the river blank, even if he misses a draw, or even with clubs, imagine he has Ac9s, he can follow this super aggressive line and because you believe he's ahead flop, turn and river, in my opinion you were wrong to not call, there are many combos of hands that can follow this line, and I think that if you hit clubs, you should also reconsider your opponent's size to call with just a queen-high flush.

What I would have done in the same situation would have been to raise the flop to isolate draws and avoid being between two players, the BB and the CO, it would be something around 2.75x to 3.85x, and if I was comfortable that the villain is fish/donkey , why not all in? a villain who cuts the aggressor's action and bets on this size he seems more to want to scare you than to want to extract value.

Sorry if I offended you by any chance, I didn't mean to get to this point, I just wanted to leave my comment, so that we can build better game ideas together.

Thank you for your answer. I don't feel insulted.
I think finding a raise in a multiway pot on the flop with QQ is a bit overplayed? Or have I misunderstood something?

 

[AcesUTGFold]

Thank you for posting.

To study this hand you want to build a range for the Villain that would take these actions.

We do that by using data from our player pool to estimate what these be sizes represent.

Her is an simple example of the questions we ask ourselves to estimate the V range.

1 Why lead the nuts on flop?
2 Why lead 2 pair hands OOP into 2 players? No flush blockers! Why not XR
3 Why keep betting pot sized bets?
4 Why expect to be called on turn to get max value from sets and straights?
5 What range of weaker hands might his V have?

If you take the time to dive deeply into this spot by data mining your player pool it will help in game.


Hope this helps

Thank you too. I'll take a closer look.