$10 NLHE 6-max: Calling from BB... how do you play these pots?

[loafaBREAD]

I didn't like just calling on the flop. Maybe I should check call the turn? On the river I figured he'd made a boat. don't really see 10nl players shove as a bluff.

How do we determine when to call as BB preflop?


Yatahay Network - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 66 BB
SB: 114.2 BB
Hero (BB): 134.3 BB
UTG: 176.6 BB
MP: 287.9 BB
CO: 337 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9:diamond: Q:diamond:

fold, MP raises to 2.5 BB, fold, BTN calls 2.5 BB, fold, Hero calls 1.5 BB

Flop: (8 BB, 3 players) 9:heart: 7:spade: 6:spade:
Hero checks, MP bets 5 BB, BTN calls 5 BB, Hero raises to 14 BB, MP calls 9 BB, fold

Turn: (41 BB, 2 players) 3:club:
Hero bets 14.2 BB, MP calls 14.2 BB

River: (69.4 BB, 2 players) 9:club:
Hero checks, MP bets 257.2 BB and is all-in, fold

MP wins 66 BB

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Easy call

Flop
I think, a check-raise is overplaying your hand, and I also think, I know, why you did it. There are literally no cards, you like to see on the turn and river, other than a Q, 9 or 2, which is not a spade. Everything else will complete some hands and make your future decisions difficult.

But this is not a reason to check-raise. When you do this, you are essentially taking a hand, that has some showdown value, and turning it into a value-bluff. You are folding out all their random air like a C-bet with AK and getting called by all the hands, that crush you or have a lot of equity. AKA draws.

If anything this wet and dynamic board is a reason to at least consider simply folding, when BTN has already called. There are just not going to be a lot of chances for you to take a pair of 9`s with not even top kicker to showdown and still be good against two opponents. Not saying I would fold this, but its certainly between calling and folding, and its never a raise.

Turn
Unsurpricingly you got called, and now you are out of position in a bloated pot with still just a janky top pair. Yet another hand (54) beat you now, and this was one of the better turn cards, that could have come. You should never have been in this spot, so its almost not worth analysing it. But I guess, your blocker bet is sort of ok. Gets you one step closer to showdown relatively cheaply, and if he raise, you have an easy fold.

River
I also fold to this overbet. A bunch of straights are possible, but realistically he almost always has something even better, which is the full house. He was scared of the straight, and this is why, he only woke up to action now, that the board is paired.

Conclusion
Even though you got away in the end, you lost quite a bit more, than you should in this hand. The main thing to take away is to not overvalue top pair on a low connected board. It is way different from having AK on K84 rainbow, where you are behind to way less hands and also have a lot more equity, when you are ahead. You need to look at this like "I have a middling pair with third kicker" rather than "LOL I have top pair".

 

[Sidetracked]

I'm not sure that this is such an easy fold.

As far as his boats go, we're talking specifically 77 and 66.

While I agree with fund that c/r the flop is over playing your hand, I'm not sure I'm folding that river.

 

[UkoChebuko]

Epic...What a check-raise...Is this for value ? I will play with donk bet OTF. If you like your hand so much, then the fold OTR is senseless. Also the bet OTT. What is this!?

Mate, your hands are epic, not my posts. You can laugh again if you want. I know you will...

WTF forum. Enough...Bye...

 

[arenaci]

Assuming villain is a reg I don't justify folding here because hero has all the combo draws and flush draws which missed on the river. It is not unlogical to think he perceived your small turn bet and river check as weakness and pulled the trigger. It seems like a clear call to me.

 

[John A]

The flop CR is extremely bad. You only have TPGK and your MW with a bet and a call on a wet flop. You're going to have a lot of turns and rivers you don't like. You're looking to play a small pot, not a large one.

The turn bet sizing makes no sense. If you're CR the flop, then you think you're far ahead, you should be betting 1/2 pot or better.

Then you check the river, which doesn't make sense unless you were trying to induce a bluff. Looks like you got one. Neither you or your opponents hand make any sense, but there's almost no way this guy has a boat if he just called your small flop CR MW. I don't think he could justify calling w/ 2 pair or a set hoping the guy behind him might shove. The raise was just way too small and would have induced calls w/ draws.

I'm not sure how he's ranging you, which is the only problem w/ the river. Perhaps he just thinks you're really bad and have some kind of weak trips or (98, etc...) or just played a draw really poorly. I think based on how you played it, you need to call the overbet shove. Yes, people at 10nl now a days to over bet bluff shove (if it's a good reg, especially at fast fold).

 

[loafaBREAD]

Epic...What a check-raise...Is this for value ? I will play with donk bet OTF. If you like your hand so much, then the fold OTR is senseless. Also the bet OTT. What is this!?

Mate, your hands are epic, not my posts. You can laugh again if you want. I know you will...

WTF forum. Enough...Bye...

You're good man! Just laughing at how heated you get!

Yea, never said I was good!

 

[loafaBREAD]

Assuming villain is a reg I don't justify folding here because hero has all the combo draws and flush draws which missed on the river. It is not unlogical to think he perceived your small turn bet and river check as weakness and pulled the trigger. It seems like a clear call to me.

OK... hard to see this as a bluff, but I suppose he has overpairs he could shove over here too.

The flop CR is extremely bad. You only have TPGK and your MW with a bet and a call on a wet flop. You're going to have a lot of turns and rivers you don't like. You're looking to play a small pot, not a large one.

The turn bet sizing makes no sense. If you're CR the flop, then you think you're far ahead, you should be betting 1/2 pot or better.

Then you check the river, which doesn't make sense unless you were trying to induce a bluff. Looks like you got one. Neither you or your opponents hand make any sense, but there's almost no way this guy has a boat if he just called your small flop CR MW. I don't think he could justify calling w/ 2 pair or a set hoping the guy behind him might shove. The raise was just way too small and would have induced calls w/ draws.

I'm not sure how he's ranging you, which is the only problem w/ the river. Perhaps he just thinks you're really bad and have some kind of weak trips or (98, etc...) or just played a draw really poorly. I think based on how you played it, you need to call the overbet shove. Yes, people at 10nl now a days to over bet bluff shove (if it's a good reg, especially at fast fold).

He could easily think I'm really bad :icon_thum

Thanks for the input. I see how the XR is terrible, but it was the exact reason that I wouldn't like many turns that I thought it would be best.

If it goes check, pfr bets, BU calls, we overcall and what does the turn looks like? If PFR bets again our nine is likely no good, but if pfr checks and BU bets we are looking to call?

Donk flop is ok, but we'd have to fire 2 barrels at least.

So I get how XC and pray might be the best of these options as there are cards we can fold on no sweat, and some cards we can comfortably continue on.

So... you never check-raise medium strength/vulnerable hands for protection? Sometimes I'll XR pocket pairs on boards that I know V cbets light a lot, but we should only XR with good made hands better than V's continuing range or hands with a lot of equity vs V's continuing range.

Right?

 

[John A]

He could easily think I'm really bad :icon_thum

Thanks for the input. I see how the XR is terrible, but it was the exact reason that I wouldn't like many turns that I thought it would be best.

If it goes check, pfr bets, BU calls, we overcall and what does the turn looks like? If PFR bets again our nine is likely no good, but if pfr checks and BU bets we are looking to call?

Donk flop is ok, but we'd have to fire 2 barrels at least.

So I get how XC and pray might be the best of these options as there are cards we can fold on no sweat, and some cards we can comfortably continue on.

So... you never check-raise medium strength/vulnerable hands for protection? Sometimes I'll XR pocket pairs on boards that I know V cbets light a lot, but we should only XR with good made hands better than V's continuing range or hands with a lot of equity vs V's continuing range.

Right?

lol... sorry, that probably came off bad. We all play hands badly, and when you do your opponent might think you're just bad. It doesn't mean it's true. Poker is about perception.

You're reasoning is backwards here. You don't want to XR or raise for protection. That's not a good approach. You want to XR for value or as a bluff. So when you ask what range... bluffs and value, which MW you don't need a lot of hands in your CR range. Especially not at these stakes.

So even though the turn won't look good, you don't want to CR and bloat the pot. Just call. If you were trying to CR to "end the hand", you didn't raise enough for any range of hands to really fold once they bet.