$10 NLHE 6-max: Calling 3 donkbets barrels

freddydr87

freddydr87

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I open 67s and the sb call,flop is 3h6J, the SB start donking i float the flop with 2 pair backdoorflush and backdoor strait,but turn hit the 7 i i have doubles and the SB donk turn and river,is doubles ok to call 3 barrels or is too risky?
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/1qeM03H
 
eetenor

eetenor

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I open 67s and the sb call,flop is 3h6J, the SB start donking i float the flop with 2 pair backdoorflush and backdoor strait,but turn hit the 7 i i have doubles and the SB donk turn and river,is doubles ok to call 3 barrels or is too risky?
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/1qeM03H

Thank U 4 Posting.

To answer your question no way should you fold! That was easy. Never fold as played.

Ok now how do we move beyond the basics (see above) to is there a better way to play to get more value with 2 pair vs the EP lead.

Step 1 Identify villain's range on flop.

Would villain lead sets?
2 pair?
Qx? All?
JJ-22? Would they flat call preflop? Which hands?
AA-KK? Would they slow play preflop?
Flush draws?
Gut shot draws?

Step 2
What range does this villain think they are getting value from flop then turn then river?

For future use: why would this villain discount AK as your holding on the river?
KQ-KJ-K10 K9?

Step 3
So we have a range for our villain. We have position and we raised preflop.

What is our range on this flop?
Can we raise our range on this flop?
Would we always raise our value range here?
If so what bluffs do we raise and does this 67 turn into a bluff based on villains range?
What will villain do when raised?
What are your odds to improve vs the value range?
How often will villain continue bluffs on turn?
What is your plan if bet into on a blank turn?

We call flop: how many bluffs vs value hands did you give villain when you adjust their lead range on the turn?
If the turn bet is mostly value why would we not raise that range on the turn?
Does not 67 need some protection on that turn?

That is a good way to begin to understand a more aggressive thus more profitable way to play this spot.


We have to think about getting the money in when we are good. So many bad river cards could hit to force us to fold if villain was competent. Being as they are not competent we could also lose value when the K hits the river and we check behind or villain only min bet blocks.

2 pair is hard to make for most of us we need to be looking to maximize value when we get it. a 3x turn raise makes the river pot $6 a $2 river bet makes the pot $10 instead of $6.

Hope this helps
:):)
 
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c0rnBr34d

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Nice hand. That's a pretty mean flop donk. I think we need to be careful calling 3/4 pot with middle pair no kicker. Here V can have some flush draws and we have back door hearts so we can continue on enough turn cards that it's probably fine but if there was no flush draw and the board was more dry I think we need to fold here pretty often. After we make two pair on the turn I think we played it perfect. Not much value to be made by raising river. I suppose we can raise turn some of the time to charge flush draws and Qx if we think V will call but x/c down is also fine, especially if we think V will fold to the raise too often.
 
0815am

0815am

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Nice hand. That's a pretty mean flop donk. I think we need to be careful calling 3/4 pot with middle pair no kicker. Here V can have some flush draws and we have back door hearts so we can continue on enough turn cards that it's probably fine but if there was no flush draw and the board was more dry I think we need to fold here pretty often. After we make two pair on the turn I think we played it perfect. Not much value to be made by raising river. I suppose we can raise turn some of the time to charge flush draws and Qx if we think V will call but x/c down is also fine, especially if we think V will fold to the raise too often.

I agree with this. I would also base my decision on turn bet sizing. If I wouldn’t have middle but top pair I would give him more credit for a set. I think his turn and river sizing represent the strength of his hand.

So well played and take a note if you see him bet bigger with more nutty hands.
 
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fundiver199

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I would raise the turn. Given the board texture he should never have a better two pair, so you only lose to flopped sets, and you block some of these. Also some players would check-raise their flopped sets, so you can probably discount them at least a little bit. Its much more likely, he is leading with a draw, or as was the case with top pair. Just calling is not a big mistake though, and I am certainly never even considering to fold the river as played. I am not raising the river either though, because now KJ got there, and he is not calling you with a busted draw.
 
eetenor

eetenor

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I would raise the turn. Given the board texture he should never have a better two pair, so you only lose to flopped sets, and you block some of these. Also some players would check-raise their flopped sets, so you can probably discount them at least a little bit. Its much more likely, he is leading with a draw, or as was the case with top pair. Just calling is not a big mistake though, and I am certainly never even considering to fold the river as played. I am not raising the river either though, because now KJ got there, and he is not calling you with a busted draw.


Thank U 4 Posting.

Good analysis as usual. Your point of not raising river is good as the villains's bet river range now includes many more hands that beat us.

Your range of villain's holdings on turn is strong as well. Thus your recommendation for raising turn also strong. If villain is bluffing we get no river value from the missed bluffs. If villain is tight we may not get river value by betting the K after a check. If the flush comes we may have to fold to a big bet and can be bluffed by said big bet.

So not raising the turn misses a lot of value as we have narrowed villain's range to be more heavily weighted to the type of hand villain had. As well if we raise the turn and villain folds a Q or a draw wooohooo. In tournaments with strong but not lock hands getting folds is not a bad thing. The Qx hands still have 18% equity so we will lose on that river 1-5 ish times and we less likely know when we are losing. Turn folds in this spot are a good thing and getting value when we are more likely to be ahead good as well. Being able to raise fold turn also a skill we need to develop. We can only do that by raising the turn in spots where we should be raising like this one.

Great analysis. I felt it needed to be expanded for the members who were not considering the how and why of the turn raise.

Hope this helps
:):)
 
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gustav197poker

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Excellent sequence in my opinion. Your rank is very good from that position. Sometimes you connect very well on coordinated boards down, and many times you are called by high-value hands, who want to catch bluffs, in textures that are apparently dry, but that in reality they allow important leaks, as happened in this case. GL.
Regards
 
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