€10 NLHE 6-max: Betting the Turn when an overcard to your pair hit

[Elthirius]

Hello,

This morning I've been faced with this hand which provoked some up and low.

I wasn't on my computer so no HUD, but the game has been fairly tight on this table. I didn't go to any showdown, open raised some hands, with nobody calling, 3 betting some to see all of them fold, and being 3 bet and folding most of my hands.

Villain was no different than the table. The hand just before this one, I already 3 bet him, and he folded.

The very next hand I'm dealt KK and once again villain raised 3BB. So I re raised him to 9BB, and this time he called. His range is pretty unknown but the table having been tight, 66+ KQs+ AJ+. And probably no pair higher than TT, which would have 4bet.

The flop is pretty cool for an overpair, no draw expect a remote strait possibility, and maybe a set of 6 or 7. So standard CBet half pot which is called.

And then come the dreaded card. I hesitated a little, but I thought my hand was too good to check now and show weakness, where I might be faced with a tough decision if Villain decide to bet into my check.

So I decided to fire another bet of half pot.

Was it the right thing to do ? Too dangerous ?

Looking at his range while writing this post it seems I'm beat by more quite a numerous hand he would flat pre and call flop.

Maybe I'm assigning a tighter range than he really has. Your thoughts ?

pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - €0.05/€0.10 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: €18.70 (187 bb)
MP: €10.00 (100 bb)
CO: €9.85 (99 bb)
BU: €25.94 (259 bb)
SB (Hero): €10.02 (100 bb)
BB: €10.38 (104 bb)

Pre-Flop: (€0.15) Hero is SB with K♦ K♣
1 fold, MP raises to €0.30, 2 players fold, Hero 3-bets to €0.90, 1 fold, MP calls €0.60

Flop: (€1.90) 7♠ 6♥ J♣ (2 players)
Hero bets €0.90, MP calls €0.90

Turn: (€3.70) A♦ (2 players)

 

[zuker]

If no reads its pretty standard. Bet flop. Bet/fold turn.

 

[cs_rlewis]

Yeah tough spot. You are beating QQ here.
I think I would bet turn here. You probably only have a half pot size bet left.
You can also check call as well. You probably have QQ in your range here so your probably folding QQ and calling with KK to keep your range balanced.

 

[sedlacekj]

It is usually better to check here, simply because you know so little about the villain. I would check here, then call a 1/2 pot bet of his or a bit more if my stack is great and fold if he bets big. See the river card and then decide from there, probably fold to pressure there unless a K shows up. If he is betting into you and you allow him that chance, he either has an A or is willing to be as if he has one all the way to the river.

 

[Rahatis]

Just fold and make us proud.

 

[eetenor]

They will fold

Hello,

This morning I've been faced with this hand which provoked some up and low.

I wasn't on my computer so no HUD, but the game has been fairly tight on this table. I didn't go to any showdown, open raised some hands, with nobody calling, 3 betting some to see all of them fold, and being 3 bet and folding most of my hands.

Villain was no different than the table. The hand just before this one, I already 3 bet him, and he folded.

The very next hand I'm dealt KK and once again villain raised 3BB. So I re raised him to 9BB, and this time he called. His range is pretty unknown but the table having been tight, 66+ KQs+ AJ+. And probably no pair higher than TT, which would have 4bet.

The flop is pretty cool for an overpair, no draw expect a remote strait possibility, and maybe a set of 6 or 7. So standard CBet half pot which is called.

And then come the dreaded card. I hesitated a little, but I thought my hand was too good to check now and show weakness, where I might be faced with a tough decision if Villain decide to bet into my check.

So I decided to fire another bet of half pot.

Was it the right thing to do ? Too dangerous ?

Looking at his range while writing this post it seems I'm beat by more quite a numerous hand he would flat pre and call flop.

Maybe I'm assigning a tighter range than he really has. Your thoughts ?

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - €0.05/€0.10 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: €18.70 (187 bb)
MP: €10.00 (100 bb)
CO: €9.85 (99 bb)
BU: €25.94 (259 bb)
SB (Hero): €10.02 (100 bb)
BB: €10.38 (104 bb)

Pre-Flop: (€0.15) Hero is SB with K♦ K♣
1 fold, MP raises to €0.30, 2 players fold, Hero 3-bets to €0.90, 1 fold, MP calls €0.60

Flop: (€1.90) 7♠ 6♥ J♣ (2 players)
Hero bets €0.90, MP calls €0.90

Turn: (€3.70) A♦ (2 players)

Thanks for posting

Read your own range statement and if you think it is correct there is no QQ . Then think everyone on this table including you is playing tight. So when you bet turn it will be called by better hands and folded by worse by your own estimation of play.

Do we ever bet in a spot like that?
If so why for 1/2 pot?

Try 1/3 pot make it look like you want a call. Shove the river bluff to fold any weak aces.
If your opponents are really tight and can think that is.

If not check turn, call reasonable sized bets on turn and river if the board allows.
We want to let our OPP try to bluff or value bet a weaker hand on turn or river.

We cannot be certain The OPP does not have QJ suited-pair plus backdoor flush and called one time vs your 99 88 1010 or whatever the wild guy 3 betting two hands in a row might have. Remember players make mistakes by assuming you could be Looser than you are.

Just a few thoughts to consider.

 

[mikeisthebestever]

I would never bet this turn because it would never get called by a worse hand. Always checking here, with the intent to call if he bets. I would also be betting FOR VALUE on the river maybe 1/3 pot to try and get value from a single pair with the intent of folding to a raise.

 

[zekubiki]

standard bet 1/3-fold turn, and check-fold river.

 

[Elthirius]

Thank you all for your inputs.

I feel it's a scenario I must work on, I often make the mistake to inflate the pot too much while I could be behind, and only better hands would call me.

But I'm always afraid if I check to Villain he will try to bluff me off what could be the best hand.

For the record Villain folded to my bet so this time it worked.

 

[eetenor]

Learn to love being bluffed

Thank you all for your inputs.

I feel it's a scenario I must work on, I often make the mistake to inflate the pot too much while I could be behind, and only better hands would call me.

But I'm always afraid if I check to Villain he will try to bluff me off what could be the best hand.

For the record Villain folded to my bet so this time it worked.

Our goal in no limit holdem is to win our opponents stack not to get them to fold when we are winning. If our opponent never bluffs we may get a value bet on river after their check on turn.

We should hate that villain folded the turn hate hate hate it. It means our bet was a mistake.
We are an 88% favorite vs QJ why would we want a fold.

You will lose sometimes yes but loss avoidance is not the purpose of NL

Hope this helps

 

[bbennie1]

I have searched so much on the internet about hands like these. I believe after listening to Negreanu and Doug Polk I became sure on how to play this. The importance is to maintain the aggression and if you check, you can loose that and you'll be forced into a difficult decision if the other player bets, looking down at a possible 2nd barrel too. So you have to bet the turn. There is no other way around it. Moreover, in this particular hand, the only hand he could bet pre-flop with and call a raise on the flop while holding an ace, would be AJ. Otherwise, he just wouldn't have an ace. Unless he has AA. Like Teddy KGB said: "That ace could not have helped you."

 

[mikeisthebestever]

I have searched so much on the internet about hands like these. I believe after listening to Negreanu and Doug Polk I became sure on how to play this. The importance is to maintain the aggression and if you check, you can loose that and you'll be forced into a difficult decision if the other player bets, looking down at a possible 2nd barrel too. So you have to bet the turn. There is no other way around it. Moreover, in this particular hand, the only hand he could bet pre-flop with and call a raise on the flop while holding an ace, would be AJ. Otherwise, he just wouldn't have an ace. Unless he has AA. Like Teddy KGB said: "That ace could not have helped you."

What aces can he have that flat a 3-bet? Hands like A5 [which probably fold the flop] Hands like AK [which we DOUBLE block] He could have AQ, which he may not even float with in a 3bet pot on this board for that price. I think its much more likely for him to show up with hands like pocket 8s thru 10s that call the flop because you shouldnt have many J in your range. If you bet the turn you blow them off hands you are beating that have very little equity against you. If you check this turn its going to check back a large amount of the time, and you may get an extra street of value on brick rivers.

 

[blackburn44]

you can check/raise turn. you should keep controlling pot size. i think checking turn is better in long run.

 

[razzor94]

I've noticed that these turn spots only happen OOP. If you were IP you could comfortably check and check-call most of the time on the river.
I am struggling as well in these spots and I think you could go with 1 of 2 ways.
1. You are going to have some weak Ax cbets(1/3 cbet is better IMO in these spots than 1/2 or 2/3) which you could check turn and check call river as well with KK just to balance I guess against regular opponents unless you have a read.
2. Against weaker or unknown opponents I think betting the turn 1/3 again should give you much more info on his hand and it serves as a blocker bet.
Think about it: If he had very strong hand like AJ and especially a set he would probably want to get more money in on the turn immediately so he can stack you on the river because he interprets your 1/3 bet like a strong hand.

If he just calls your 1/3 bet on the turn it makes his range condensed and not polarized. So anything from 3rd pair to weak TP. And what does he do with them when you check to him on the river ? He mostly checks back anything weaker than TP and sometimes even weak TP's.
So if he bets the river you can comfortably fold unless you think he calls a 3bet with like 98s, T9s, or if he got to the river with KQs and now wants to take a stab at it.