$10 NLHE 6-max: Any way to get away from this?

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MidnightSleepless

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Found my self in a strange position last night. Been facing quite a few passive limpers recently and been struggling with ranging them or even coming close to putting them on a hand.
some context FYI villain has been limping about 75% of hands and calling almost all raises pre flop. I have seen him play weak aces OOP and slow play KK(by limping in after other limpers). I've also seen him bluff some random air like K9o when a 3 to a flush hits. I would label him as a loose splashy player that likes to call and see most flops and float with very little and pounce on perceived weakness. Opinions and thoughts always welcome



LJ: 100 BB
HJ: 100BB

CO: 100 BB
BTN (Hero): 100 BB
SB: 135.8 BB
BB: 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has :qc4::qh4:

fold, fold, CO limps to 1 BB, fold, Hero (BTN) raises to 4 BB, SB calls 4 BB, CO calls 4BB

Flop: (12 BB, 3 players) :4h4::5d4::6s4:
CO bets 10 BB, Hero calls 10 BB, SB folds

Turn: (30 BB, 2 players) :5c4:
CO bets 21 BB, Hero calls 21 BB

River: (67 BB, 2 players) :ks4:
CO bets 53 BB, Hero calls 53 BB



CO shows :2s4::3s4: and wins with a straight


I was genuinely confused by the donk on the flop (after seeing his cards I get it) I'm just not sure I can fold this. If his limping range contains basically any two suited cards (at the very least all the suited connectors) and all the low pairs, I imagine I am beat a lot of the time on this flop and should just fold to the large flop donk.


What are other peoples thoughts?
 
loafaBREAD

loafaBREAD

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Yea- vs this type of limp-call V you should do two things:

1) Iso wide and cbet often
2) overlimp on occasion IP w/ speculative hands (if V limps with strong hands)

As played preflop is perfect.

Vs. the flop donk, sure he has some flopped straights and sets, but with a wide range he has a variety of OE and gutshots, pair + draws etc.

I would raise this donk bet. Here's my plan OTF

Case 1:
FLOP: V donks, Hero raises, V calls. TURN: V checks, hero bets with the plan to evaluate river, possibly check back

If V donks turn we'll just flat.

Case 2:
V donks, Hero raises, V 3!
-depending on the sizing I would call/fold. If he 3! flop I'm just trying to get to showdown. If he's as aggro as you say we have to be cautious here.

Also, we do like the 5 on the turn as 2 pair, sets are less likely.

Your calling isn't too bad, assuming v does this with A3, A7, 77, 68, 79 all those hands.

I'd like to hear from more experienced players though... flop should hit V's range here, so maybe raising flop isn't the best play. Also, bet sizing tells are real and should be used here.

Edit: Flop is 3 way, so maybe lean towards calling to evaluate on turn. Don't think we can get away from this though.
 
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300HPGOD

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Against these types of players you should be raising over their limp by more than 4x. 4x is normally fine against players that limp fold at least somewhat often but against players that will limp call then you should be squeezing a few more BB of value from them pre flop and going bigger, either 5x or 6x.

As played on the flop my alarm would already be going off if they are the type of player that you write they are. I dont think very often if ever they will be leading into me after I raise pre and they lead into us for 83% of pot. I would never put them on the hand that they have but I would already be thinking possible set and knowing that they have something whether it is an overpair to the board, a set, draw, etc. I would call this flop bet but again, I am not loving this even with QQ.

The turn is a good and bad card. Its good since it reduces set of 5s but it also helps the A5 get there which is a hand they could have here since people really love A5 suited for some reason (I get why its liked just dont get why its loved). I noticed the sizing here sets up a 3/4th pot river shove quite nicely too, not sure if villain was trying to do that or just stumbled into it. I would be calling here hoping the villain is on 88-JJ but again I am not feeling good about this.

The river brings the King which I take as a good card because to me it should make the villain really define their hand. This would be a villain dependent here as are they the type of player that would continue to bet with JJ-88 here with an overcard hitting the board? Not sure what the answer to that is but if I felt they would hold up here and not bet those hands on the river then the river shove is a fold to me. If you think they continue to go with smaller pocket pairs then it gets real tough. My gut here would tell me in game to fold since they are going 3 streets, all big sizings against a pre flop raiser. Maybe they are a maniac and would do this but I feel like they have something here they are confident in. My initial guess would have been a set since they would probably play it the same way. Tough spot to be in with an overpair but I fold the river here, its nitty but I fold. You also mention that this player has limped before with KK so those types of hands could be there as well when normally without a raise we would think they wouldn't be. Tough hand for sure
 
marvinsytan

marvinsytan

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PH
for me passive player will be passive unless they have a big hand

so here from passive then turns aggro meaning they have a hand

i'll call on the flop, call turn, then no point in calling river so many hands that beat us already our hand value diminishes completely
 
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mktpppr

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Hello,

is hand history correct? how does SB have position on flop? I assume SB checked and then CO bet 10bb

P: fine
F: fine, do not raise these types, especially not on bad flop and multi-way, CO is passive and is betting big vs 2 opponents
T: fine, but not loving it
R: we have to fold, villain isn't scared of high one paired hands, and these types don't 3barrel air, they bluff one street small
 
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MidnightSleepless

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Thanks for all the responses very helpful, as always, to hear other people’s point of view. I think general consensus here is call flop & turn then have to fold river to shove. My only rationale to calling river was that I felt it didn’t really change the texture of the board so if I thought I was good on the turn I should have called off the river bet. Although maybe with hindsight seeing villains actions across all 3 streets can give a better indication on hand strength than taking a single street in isolation. I also defiantly agree that sizing here is a bit of a give away


I think I really struggle as I have seen many a passive player donk here with top pair thinking they are good and will be getting value/get me to fold high unpaired hands. I am not convinced that these sort of players are even aware of what I could have and as such are just thinking..”ooo I have a hand I should bet”


Notes defiantly made about this player for future reference.
 
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