$10 NLHE 6-max: AK 3bet Pot, Facing River Shove

[bgomez89]

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem $0.1(BB)
CO ($12.96) [VPIP: 60.7% | PFR: 17.9% | AGG: 33% | hands: 57]
BTN ($16.86) [VPIP: 57.4% | PFR: 16.7% | AGG: 26.3% | Flop Agg: 20% | Turn Agg: 23.5% | River Agg: 40% | 3-Bet: 0% | 4-Bet: 0% | Hands: 55]
SB ($8.48) [VPIP: 32.7% | PFR: 14.9% | AGG: 33.3% | Hands: 104]
HERO ($12.07) [VPIP: 23.1% | PFR: 18.8% | AGG: 32.6% | Flop Agg: 43.6% | Turn Agg: 26% | River Agg: 16.9% | 3-Bet: 5% | Fold to 3-Bet: 71.2% | 4-Bet: 9.3% | Hands: 1897]
UTG ($6.79) [VPIP: 46.2% | PFR: 23.1% | AGG: 55.3% | Hands: 53]
HJ ($18.54) [VPIP: 25.8% | PFR: 17.9% | AGG: 31.1% | Hands: 153]

Dealt to Hero: K:diamond: A:spade:

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Raises To $0.30, SB Folds, HERO Raises To $1.10, BTN Calls $0.80

Hero SPR on Flop: [4.88 effective]
Flop ($2.25): Q:diamond: 4:spade: 6:heart:
HERO Bets $1.06 (Rem. Stack: $9.91), BTN Calls $1.06 (Rem. Stack: $14.70)

Turn ($4.37): Q:diamond: 4:spade: 6:heart: Q:heart:
HERO Bets $2.06 (Rem. Stack: $7.85), BTN Calls $2.06 (Rem. Stack: $12.64)

River ($8.49): Q:diamond: 4:spade: 6:heart: Q:heart: K:spade:
HERO Checks, BTN Bets $8.02 (Rem. Stack: $4.62), HERO ???

Interested in seeing other people's thoughts on this

 

[fundiver199]

I am not loving your flop and turn bets all that much against a fish like this. Are you really getting him to fold his 77-JJ with two small bets like this? I dont think so. On the river its one of those gross spots, where you would almost rather not have improved, because then it would have been an easier decision.

But I still fold here. You are getting a bad price, there are very few busted draws, and a lot of hands beat you, which it makes absolute sense for him to have. Like 66, 44, AQ, KQ, QJs, QTs etc. Of course its kind strange to fold on the best possible river card, but this is why, I dont like your turn bet. You want to bluff with hands, that can improve to more than just a bluff catcher. Like on this board maybe AhKh but not the other AK combos.

 

[bgomez89]

I agree, the flop and turn bets were small. I guess I was thinking that to this villain a 1/2 pot bet would make no difference vs a 2/3 bet so if I can get the same result with a smaller size bet, the better. Given the action on the flop, are you just c/fing turn?

 

[Sidetracked]

I think your line should either be 3 barrels, with a river shove, or 1 barrel and then shut down.

 

[Aballinamion]

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem $0.1(BB)
CO ($12.96) [VPIP: 60.7% | PFR: 17.9% | AGG: 33% | Hands: 57]
BTN ($16.86) [VPIP: 57.4% | PFR: 16.7% | AGG: 26.3% | Flop Agg: 20% | Turn Agg: 23.5% | River Agg: 40% | 3-Bet: 0% | 4-Bet: 0% | Hands: 55]
SB ($8.48) [VPIP: 32.7% | PFR: 14.9% | AGG: 33.3% | Hands: 104]
HERO ($12.07) [VPIP: 23.1% | PFR: 18.8% | AGG: 32.6% | Flop Agg: 43.6% | Turn Agg: 26% | River Agg: 16.9% | 3-Bet: 5% | Fold to 3-Bet: 71.2% | 4-Bet: 9.3% | Hands: 1897]
UTG ($6.79) [VPIP: 46.2% | PFR: 23.1% | AGG: 55.3% | Hands: 53]
HJ ($18.54) [VPIP: 25.8% | PFR: 17.9% | AGG: 31.1% | Hands: 153]

Dealt to Hero: K♦ A♠

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Raises To $0.30, SB Folds, HERO Raises To $1.10, BTN Calls $0.80

Hero SPR on Flop: [4.88 effective]
Flop ($2.25): Q♦ 4♠ 6♥
HERO Bets $1.06 (Rem. Stack: $9.91), BTN Calls $1.06 (Rem. Stack: $14.70)

Turn ($4.37): Q♦ 4♠ 6♥ Q♥
HERO Bets $2.06 (Rem. Stack: $7.85), BTN Calls $2.06 (Rem. Stack: $12.64)

River ($8.49): Q♦ 4♠ 6♥ Q♥ K♠
HERO Checks, BTN Bets $8.02 (Rem. Stack: $4.62), HERO ???

Interested in seeing other people's thoughts on this

Hello bgomez89, first of all your sample of hands is useless for proper decision making.
Second: if you believe your hand was strong enough to be bluffing flop/turn, you should not hesitate and call this down OTR almost always.
This is because BTN will almost never display the nuts in situations like this (QQ and KK could be 4-betting BTN x BB Steal). Besides, BTN can display KQ, which sucks, but there are worst Kings and enough missed draws to justify our call OTR.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[bgomez89]

Hello bgomez89, first of all your sample of hands is useless for proper decision making.

??? How is this constructive? My HUD automatically puts in the stats when I export the HH, if they're not useful to you, don't look at them lol

 

[Casey55]

Rule number 1. Don’t bluff a fish

 

[fundiver199]

Given the action on the flop, are you just c/fing turn?

Basically yes. Unless of course he bet something silly like 10% pot.

 

[bgomez89]

Rule number 1. Don’t bluff a fish

Yeah, I'm going to definitely disagree since there are more than one kind of fish

 

[Aballinamion]

??? How is this constructive? My HUD automatically puts in the stats when I export the HH, if they're not useful to you, don't look at them lol

I can see it. If you think that this preposterous ammount of hands (55?) is enough for decision making, be my guest.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[Mercurius]

I’m probably not cbetting this flop OOP, IP yes but not OOP. It’s easy to check over and call if they bet given the strength of your hand.

You can then donk the turn if you want to apply pressure or check over again and call down when you hit the river.

I’ve found this technique works well against weaker players when you’re OOP as they cbet with air and won’t apply heavy pressure without a big hand.

You can call any bet under pot size on the flop, if he checks the turn you probably take it down, if he bets the turn you walk away

 

[bgomez89]

I can see it. If you think that this preposterous ammount of hands (55?) is enough for decision making, be my guest.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

Uh I don't recall ever saying that I took his stats into account so I'm not sure why you're saying that

 

[teh_colonel_saigon]

I can see it. If you think that this preposterous ammount of hands (55?) is enough for decision making, be my guest.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

:laugh: This had me rolling. Corona cabin fever's getting to me.

Villains play is consistent with AQ KQ
If he's a fish then he'll blast out with AK on the river. At best you're chopping. :star:

 

[Aballinamion]

Uh I don't recall ever saying that I took his stats into account so I'm not sure why you're saying that

Thanks, now you had clarified the situation of us. Well dear mate, if you didn't take his/her stats into account, why did you decide to bluff flop and turn and get dizzy by the river?
Your bluffs were based on what exactly, your feelings, intuition, sensation, because now I am starting to get offended here, because we are all trying to help you out here and you keep looking for excuses to justify your moves.
If you were so certain about your decision making process, why put us to waste our time, or worse, just to be proven wrong by your concepts?
Sorry for my candor, it was never my intention to give you any offense, but it seems you a pushing our buttons a little.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[bgomez89]

Thanks, now you had clarified the situation of us. Well dear mate, if you didn't take his/her stats into account, why did you decide to bluff flop and turn and get dizzy by the river?
Your bluffs were based on what exactly, your feelings, intuition, sensation, because now I am starting to get offended here, because we are all trying to help you out here and you keep looking for excuses to justify your moves.
If you were so certain about your decision making process, why put us to waste our time, or worse, just to be proven wrong by your concepts?
Sorry for my candor, it was never my intention to give you any offense, but it seems you a pushing our buttons a little.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

You started off by saying the stats given by my HUD were worthless and assumed I put heavy stock into them when playing the hand as I did. I told you that when I exported the hand the stats were automatically there, I'm not going to go through the hassle of removing each stat with < 1000 hands just because some people don't understand sample sizes.

You can feel confident in your decision making process and still want to get the opinions of others. If you only post hands where you weren't sure, you could be missing out on good feedback.

That being said, that's not the case for this hand and the only piece of "advice" I criticized was the unnecessary comment at the stats.

So why did I take this line if I wasn't regarding the stats? The flop to me is an easy c-bet: it's crazy dry and villain can fold a lot of smaller pairs or float us with random trash. The turn c-bet is to try and fold out any mid range pairs that villain didn't give credit for. I do have an issue with my bet sizing like fundiver mentioned, it should have been more on the flop and I probably should've just shut down on the turn. However, given the action river does seem like a fold

 

[Aballinamion]

You started off by saying the stats given by my HUD were worthless and assumed I put heavy stock into them when playing the hand as I did. I told you that when I exported the hand the stats were automatically there, I'm not going to go through the hassle of removing each stat with < 1000 hands just because some people don't understand sample sizes.

You can feel confident in your decision making process and still want to get the opinions of others. If you only post hands where you weren't sure, you could be missing out on good feedback.

That being said, that's not the case for this hand and the only piece of "advice" I criticized was the unnecessary comment at the stats.

So why did I take this line if I wasn't regarding the stats? The flop to me is an easy c-bet: it's crazy dry and villain can fold a lot of smaller pairs or float us with random trash. The turn c-bet is to try and fold out any mid range pairs that villain didn't give credit for. I do have an issue with my bet sizing like fundiver mentioned, it should have been more on the flop and I probably should've just shut down on the turn. However, given the action river does seem like a fold

Fair enough. But as we can see, although the flop was very dry, Villain did not fold its pocket pairs and possible semi-bluffs. We don't expect trashes to be calling down 3-bet preflop plus c-bet flop at those lower limits such as 10 NLHE.
To think that some regular is able to really fold some strong part of equity in situations very all ranges are dynamic, not capped, seems very nayve to me.
The problem of the c-bet turn is that, according to Polished Poker Vol 1, there is one specific type of regular, no offense given, that bets turn with AK when totally unimproved.
I understand and I will c-bet this flop is a small frequency, oop going for maximum 1/3 pot with all of my values and bluffs, just because there is nothing to be charged of as draws for example.
However, OTT, since I didn't invest too much by inflating the pot already OTF, I would go for check-fold, regardless of Villain stats, because in scenarios like this, at the micros, it doesn't make any sense to try to make a bluff like this, with AKo OTT, completely unimproved and betting for despair in the sole hope Villain would have the logic and the common sense to be folding 77, 88, 99 you name it.
I would be betting more OTT, because it is more logic, thinking about the long run, when it comes another Ax OTT, a Kx, a Jx, a Tx or something that somehow opens to my range some straight or flush possibility.
Betting too much in dry flops like this, holding AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, hands that you pick up right off the bat to 3-bet for value versus BTN's ranges, is a very nice way of burning chips, because in situations where we consider 3-bet ranges from CO, BTN, SB and BB we are not expecting too much AA, KK, QQ, AKs, AQs, etc, but weaker combos that 3-bet for steal, so if we do elect to make huge c-bet flops trying to deny equity OTT we are just unbalancing our ranges and playing not the range but the specific hand itself, which is a very weak thing to do.
I strongly disagree, considering your line OOP:

A) 3-bet Preflop (strong)

B) C-bet Flop (strong)

C) C-bet Turn/Double Barrel (very strong)

D) Check River (very weak)

When you check down the river it seems you are scared of the King, when in fact, the King can give you the nuts here many times, since BTN will almost never display AA, KK, AK or even KQ. Yes, Villain will present in a very low frequency KQ here, because we believe some trips would be raising OTT for protection, thus, we are not considering many KQ, or many nuts at all on Villain's ranges. So why do we fold since we are blocking AQ, KQ, AK, and Villain will almost never present KK on a river like this? Result oriented, not a little mates, not even a little.
BTN could have decided to shove because your line OTR was very weak. And then I believe Villain decided to bluff some missed draws, ace high, smaller pocket pairs, you name it, because this is what happens when we commit blunders like this.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[Casey55]

AK is considered a marginal made hand here , it has showdown value. Check-calling flop and re-evaluating turn seems fine, if the guy has high VPIP I'm not even trying to bluff , 55 hands might not be a-lot but you can get bit of info from it. I might rather prefer check-calling flop to keep ranges wide and equity decent.