$10 NLHE 6-max: Was This A Nitty Fold? AA vs 1.7x Pot Bet?

Gohaku94

Gohaku94

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Yes it was nitty. He could have a flush draw or a K if he is doing this only with 2 pairs + ( which there are not many he could have) he is just bad
 
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fundiver199

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First off he was risking 1,7x the money, he could win, but since you already put in a bet, you only had to call the difference between your bet and his raise, so his raise was actually pot sized and not a 1,7x overbet. He probably hit the "pot" button, which most poker sites offer.

With that out of the way, there are two different ways to look at this situation. You can attempt to play GTO and follow your MDF, which in this case is somewhere around 35-40%. Meaning you have to call with the top 35-40% of your range to make bluffing unprofitable for him.

Depending how you play, AA is almost certainly in that top 35-40%, so you should call. However if he put you all in on the river, AA will then be a fold on most runouts, since you got rid of most of your worse hands on the turn.

The other approach is the exploitative one, and from that standpoint I think, this is a good fold. It would be nice to have some info on the Villain, but at 10NL and below a lot of players are just never bluffing with this line and sizing.

He pots it on the turn, because he want to stack off on the river, and he wants to stack off, because he has essentially the nuts. Or at least something, that can beat a one pair hand. Maybe he flopped a set, or maybe he hit his gutshot with 7d6d or 7h6h. Something of that nature.

And if that is our read, then why waste money calling on the turn? We know already, the river jam is coming at an enormously high frequenzy, and we also know, we are going to be folding to it, unless we spike top set.

So as long as, you dont show the table, you folded AA, this to me is a good fold at 10NL and lower. At 25NL and higher, I would be more hesitant to do it, since the regulars tend to get more balanced, as you move up. But for 10NL and lower not paying of people, who are not balanced, is actually one of the ways to beat those games.
 
PaxMundi

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I dont mind the turn fold vs such a big raise i dont think this is a bluff.
 
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Sidetracked

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I think that's a very nitty fold. If you always fold AA there, you are overfolding to a huge extent.
 
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kkonicke

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This is a disgusting spot. The turn was your decision point in my opinion. I don't think I'm ever flat calling in that spot, this guy is jamming 100% of rivers...even if he happens to be on a draw and bricks. Get it in if you think you're good, or fold if you think you aren't good. This guy could be making this play with a set, 2 pair, and a ton of draws/combo draws. I don't think Kx will raise big like that here. He'd either raise flop or check/call it down I think. I've personally found the check/call - check/raise line to be extremely strong...it's very often a set(2 pair would probably raise flop if he had it right away). It's really tough, I'm not sure I'd fold here personally. You don't have the Ad, which is a very important card as you don't block some of the best combo draws(A6d A7d) that make sense to make a big semi-bluff with. I'm not sure I would call this a nitty laydown, I would call this a disciplined laydown. There will be better spots.
 
pentazepam

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Baluga Theorem still holds true read-less: if you get raised on the turn, top pair (or over pair) is rarely good.

Against aggressive, bluffers, idiots or good TAG/LAG players that can sometimes not be the case - but it is almost always correct to fold against the population at 100NL or lower in this kind of situations.
 
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Thanks for the replies. Admittedly the reason I posted this spot was because evaluating the hand post session I realized from a GTO perspective I'm probably meant to continue (MDF calculations show that I should be calling). On the same token, I just don't see many bluffs like this at 10NL that would do this against my quite strong range.

Anywho, I'm getting absolutely coolered constantly at 10NL at the moment, or maybe I'm just not very good. I just moved up from 4NL after winning $100+ with a 16+BB/100 WR, but am now getting wrecked, so what do I know (I'm actually up 67 cents since I started 5k hands ago, but feels horrible)
 
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fundiver199

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Anywho, I'm getting absolutely coolered constantly at 10NL at the moment, or maybe I'm just not very good. I just moved up from 4NL after winning $100+ with a 16+BB/100 WR, but am now getting wrecked, so what do I know (I'm actually up 67 cents since I started 5k hands ago, but feels horrible)

Keep up the faith and continue to play your best, and chances are, you will eventually win at 10NL also. A 16 BB / 100 winrate is not realistic though, and even at 4NL your true long term winrate is almost certainly lower than that. So you have gone from being on a heater to running at little bit bad, and this has just coincided with you moving up. You should actually not even really start to look at your winrate until after 20k hands, because until then the results are just so totally dominated by variance.
 
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Unkinhead

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Keep up the faith and continue to play your best, and chances are, you will eventually win at 10NL also. A 16 BB / 100 winrate is not realistic though, and even at 4NL your true long term winrate is almost certainly lower than that. So you have gone from being on a heater to running at little bit bad, and this has just coincided with you moving up. You should actually not even really start to look at your winrate until after 20k hands, because until then the results are just so totally dominated by variance.


Don't think it was a gigantic heater tbh, the playerbase in .02/.04 on Global Poker is notoriously bad, but 16 is likely high. I did hit almost 20k hands I believe. Within a 70% conf. interval I was between 11-23bb/100 according to primedope with a 75bb/100 st. dev

I highly doubt I'd approach it though on say...ACR

The secret is to flop lots of sets. ;)
 
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fundiver199

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If 4NL is the lowest limit at Global Poker, it stand to reason, that it will play closer to 2NL on other sites. And dubble digit winrates are also not unrealistic at 2NL on Stars. Anyways now you are playing 10NL, and you should expect your winrate to at least drop 50%. This also mean, that if the goal is to make money, you might be better off staying at 4NL and enjoy the low variance easy profit. If the goal is to develop as a player, you are right to move up though.
 
elflake

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I don't think we're going to see alotta check-raise bluffs at low stakes.
 
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fundiver199

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I don't think we're going to see alotta check-raise bluffs at low stakes.


It depends on the situation. If we get check-raised on the flop, or on the turn after making a delayed C-bet on a blank (flop went check-check), then our hand look much weaker, and people in the micors are absolutely check-raising as a bluff.

But if it happen on the turn or river, after we have done nothing but betting, its much more unlikely to be a bluff. The simple reason is, our hand look a lot stronger, and any half decent microstakes player does not try to get people to make big hero folds all that often.

A lot of this has to do with the stakes. When you are playing for the price of a cup of coffee (5NL) or maybe a pizza (10NL), even regulars tend to go "nah whatever I call". So decent players are underbluffing in big pots, because that is still the way to beat these games for the highest winrate.
 
teh_colonel_saigon

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Anyone think we should be betting Turn a bit smaller? 1/3 pot? It would make possible check-raises easier to call.
 
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gustav197poker

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I think the villain put a lot of pressure on the turn, since he is the leader in chips. Possibly it seemed to you that he had a 6-7 when playing in BB. When the line was completed on the turn, I would probably have made a check for protection. Maybe villain I bet half pot or 3/4 pot, but I think it is necessary to defend your hand at this point.
You have to consider that many color combinations failed on the turn. So now, your hand becomes a good bluff catcher.
As you played I think the fold is correct at that time. Basically you are blocking the color with some doubles like K-8 or maybe he got a set.
Greetings.
 
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FF2586

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Answering your question :
Yes, it was nitty!
Let me tell you about myself, this is a call for me with any pair 9s+ when I have good history. Does not mean I advice you to do so, but it means that there are more points of views that are looser. So you should know you are choosing the tight end.

gl gl gl
 
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