This is a discussion on $10 NLHE 6-max: Did my A high had value river? within the online poker forums, in the Cash Game Hand Analysis section; i made a bluff 3bet,i continue in a favorable board and i bluff the river,iff i X i could have win?
3 unnecessary bet preflop against 2 players, being out of position. This hand can be played 100% of the time, against a loose range, being in position. But in this case, not only did you have the worst posture but also, there was a deep villain who could probably have a greater advantage against you, in the post flop game.
In the flop your cbet is basically giving equity to combinations like J-J; J-T You only block A-K; A-Q and A-J but now with your bet on the flop, they can basically call you hands like K-Q; K-J; Q-J; K-9 + flush draw combinations. That is, you are building a boat with a low capacity of fold equity for the villain. and where most of the combinations that you block probably were removed in preflop, after your 3bet made, from out of position.
In addition, if the villain is a player of wide range, he could include in this spot low value combinations, which are going to float from this texture, to induce flush blockers and then could reverse the sequence and convert his low values into future attacks, if these lines are completed in the nearby streets.
On the turn, the villain's check could protect a valuable hand, which could continue on the river and turn it into bluff catcher.
In conclusion, I believe that a value line should be better protected in this texture. Your bets were blunt, but in my opinion they were exposed to various counterattacks or defenses, which you will probably notice more, as you look at these complex textures in similars cases, with differents villains.
Hi there freddydr87, thank you for posting your hand. As gustav197poker said, I believe it is a very close and hard scenario. I like your 3bet preflop, but your 3bet size of 3.6x, I think BTN is not going to continue with the weakest part of its range. Important note: remember it is very hard to bluff players at the micros. You gotta have very secure information of the postflop game of villain, otherwise, the line you took is very poor. (although it seems very strong and right).
Group 1: Which hands could we possibily have in this spot for betting 1/2 in 3bet pot, for protection: That's what it seems your move in V's eyes (bet for protection). We have a little pocket 4's right not, but we have a lot of Pocket TT, which have a set, some KK, which have Top SET, KTs with Two Pair, A4s with two pair, and I don't believe we are ever 3betting light SB x BTN with K4s. It is more likely that, if villain had KK or AA it would be 4betting in a spot like it. So we believe that postlfop it will not show many KK and AA.
This group we are checking a ton and betting small, because we are in the top of our range and our intention is to extract value of worse hands and semi-bluffs that villain will have a lot. This is why we can easily check-call, check-raise or bet 1/3 pot, and this size will look as a weak point on our game for many players.
Group 2: Another logical hands would be AK, KQ, AT, QT, and the semi-bluffs together in this group, QJ, AJ, two hearts combos, and 99+. Are we betting 1/2 pot in a 3bet pot out of position, against all types of players how often, with this group of hands? Are we betting our entire range 1/2 pot here?
Group 3: Total bluffs. I believe, with all due respect, that your A5s, in this specific scenario is a pure bluff. As I said before, I don't like making air bluffs like this, never. If I had at least one club in the flop, I would think hard before c-betting this type of connected board.
What do we really have here is a ton of reverse implied odds, because even when we hit an Ace we never know if we are ahead because it completes Villain's range, if we hit a Trips of aces it will almost impossible to fold postlfop depending how weak the villain is.
If we hit the Runner-Runner straight up to river, we also don't know if we are going to be ahead.
Besides, our 3bet range of SB x BTN is very, very weak. Many times we 3bet preflop just to steal the pot without paying rake, which is lovely
We cannot represent a very strong range in this flop because most of times we have a large 3bet % of SB x BTN for stealing.
After the 3bet, against recreational, loose aggressives, tight passives, tight aggresives, nits, whales, I would check-fold this flop something like 98% of times. I should have a really good reason to bet either flop or turn. Either because I saw weakness in the player before, or because I saw that in the given hand the player did some blunder. Even so, at the micros, is a debatable spot, to bluff with complete air. (rake structure).
You missplayed a little bit the river, and more attentive players will explore that. Would a flush draw bet 1/2 pot flop and check turn when it brings the flush? (remember that SB 3bet stealing range is large) Yes, it is a very possible and common line. And when the river brings another King, and now there is a double pair, do the flushes feel completely secure to be for value, knowing that Villain will have plenty of 44, TT and 88 in its range? Maybe not.
A weaker player will pay you here with T8, and any King. Some will pay here with a lot of pairs given that lines you took were a little bit strange. (22-QQ)
In this case villain folded, which is nice, but mostly because it had nothing. No Tx or 8x are paying this bet river (unless, of course the total whales of the field), so many times that either we have a flush or a Full-House in the river we are going to check-back to induce bluffs. Even if we had AA here I don't believe it is a good spot for betting, because we would be transforming a strong value hand (AA) into a bluff. Given all these reasons, I believe your C-bet flop is bad and your Bet River is horrible. Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, only sincere.