$10 NLHE 6-max: 56s in BB vs a high steal% BTN

jbbb

jbbb

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Maybe I played them bad then because my db showed a profit for 3-bet suited connecters from LP openers but stuff like A4 (suited and offsuit) was -ev and I was often put in shit spots where I had to make crying calls and crying folds so I dropped them from my 3-bet range.

I would definitely drop most Axo from your 3betting range apart from AKo or AQo in special situations, however I stand by A2s-A5s being a good part of your 3betting bluff range. If you hit your ace play a bit of pot control by checking back a street or maybe two, if you hit any sort of draw play it aggressively. Going broke with a bare ace isn't the reason we 3bet it
 
Deco

Deco

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Fold pre.
As played check/fold turn.

If someone is stealing too much 3bet them lighter, widening your calling range to include any old suited cards is what fish do. It loses us money and is a big mistake.

I personally don't like the 3bet, 56s doesn't play well in 3bet pots. I'd prefer high cards such as KT/KJ/QJ were if we make a pair it's a decent one. Smaller stack to pot ratios means speculative hands such as suited connectors and small pocketpairs are less desirable. Hands that make good pairs are more favourable.
 
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baudib1

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yeah since he doesn't like to fold to 3-bets, I'm now more inclined to just dump this hand preflop. If he opens from CO (presumably he opens wide here as well) I'd be fine with flatting or 3-betting when we can make life miserable for him on a ton of boards but in this spot when he is going to call the 3-bet a ton of the time, I'd drop the smaller connectors like 65s and go for a 3-bet bluff range of suited Ax and stuff like Q8s/K7s and pretty big value range as well and flat with something like half the combos of AA/KK as well as AJ/Ts/QJs type hands that flop really well.
 
Deco

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and flat with something like half the combos of AA/KK

We should never be flatting KK+ to a steal.

If we want to deceive villain we widen our 3betting range with hands weaker than KK+, we should never be calling with KK+ and hence sacrificing a lot of value for the same reason we should not be open limping these hands. Sure villain will never see it coming but these hands are far too valuable to sacrifice for deceptions sake.
 
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baudib1

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We're playing a raised pot with the nuts, which is totally different than open limping.

TBH I think never 3-betting KK+ is better than to never cold call with them against this guy.

We want to play a lot of pots against this guy who is opening super wide and cbetting/double-barreling a ton.

That means we want:
1. A wide and balanced 3-bet range
2. A wide and strong calling range that can withstand a ton of double-barrels OOP. There aren't any hands that play OOP better than AA/KK.

We also want to:

1. Check-raise him on dry flops a ton where he might suspect we are playing back light and have him ship bluffs and top pair against us.

In general, we want to check-raise a ton of flops against BTN raisers and if we are doing this with air, monsters and draws we are either going to be unbalanced to air or folding a ton to his cbets unless we can also do this with overpairs and TPTK-type stuff.

2. We want to let him valuetown himself the times he makes toppest of pears. Again, we need overpairs and hands that make good top-pair hands like AJ/KQ/QJ hands.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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If he not folding to 3bets there is zero chance I'm flatting monsters. He's NOT paying attention. 3bet the shit out of your monsters. He's calling anyway.
 
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baudib1

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Let's think about the math on this. We have AA/KK vs. a guy who robotically puts in 12-15 BBs postflop every hand he opens. Why are we trying to give him a small chance to fold after putting in 3 or a pretty good chance of folding after he puts in 9?
 
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BlueNowhere

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He has been 3-bet 6 times, that number is meaningless and shouldn't even be coming into any reasoning.

Also if you are going to make something of that number his fold to 3-bets probably came more from LP and he didn't fold from EP so even based on those stats you can't say he never folds to 3-bets.
 
jbbb

jbbb

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Sorry Baudib have to disagree on this one. It's becoming apparent this player doesn't want to fold to 3bets so I think 3betting a tight merged range is probably better than polarized range or flatting half combo's of premium hands etc. I agree about flatting with hands that flop well (AJ,QTs,QJs etc) as he'll just spew his chips away when we hit and we can easily fold if we totally whiff. The difference is with big hands we don't miss so we don't need to have the option to get out cheaply.

I also agree it would be fairly easy to get value when we just flat pre however I think more value comes from 3betting pre. i.e. the pot is only $1.75 on the turn here, if we 3bet pre we can make it $1.75 going into the flop and playing for stacks by the turn.
 
Deco

Deco

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Let's think about the math on this. We have AA/KK vs. a guy who robotically puts in 12-15 BBs postflop every hand he opens. Why are we trying to give him a small chance to fold after putting in 3 or a pretty good chance of folding after he puts in 9?

Because that 12-15BB will turn into 36-45BB if the pot is 3bet.
Not 3betting KK+ is throwing money away.
 
jbbb

jbbb

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Bvb and buttonvblinds are dickswinging contests imo

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