$10 NLHE 6-max: 10NL aggro line OOP. Vent post

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c0rnBr34d

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Ouch! Not really a bad beat but this hand would have more than doubled my profit for the session. I still ran crazy good overall and finished 900+ hands playing 6 tables at a ridiculous 27.5 BB/100 but my All in Adj was 52.76 BB/100. I got a little out of line and played this hand super fast but V literally played 10 hands in a row and raised 3 and three bet one. I really felt like I had the fish on the hook even though it was only 10 hands in. Got it in as an 80% favorite for a 300+ BB pot so I guess I shouldn't be results oriented.
PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players

Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 122.8 BB
BTN: 259.7 BB
Hero (SB): 176.1 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 78.7 BB
MP: 157 BB VP 100, PR 33, 3B 50 (1 out of 2), 10 hands total.

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K A

fold, MP raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 7 BB, BB calls 6 BB, MP calls 5 BB

Flop: (21 BB, 3 players) K 4 T
Hero bets 20 BB, BB calls 20 BB, MP raises to 40 BB, Hero raises to 169.1 BB and is all-in, fold, MP calls 110 BB and is all-in

Turn: (341 BB, 2 players) 9

River: (341 BB, 2 players) 7

Hero:
Pre 65%, Flop 80%, Turn 18%

MP:
Pre 35%, Flop 20%, Turn 82%

MP wins 326 BB
Rake paid 15 BB
 
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I think it’s fine as played.

Ok the sizing part I would have probably closer to 12-15bb on the flop. With a pot size bet it looks like you have AA without a diamond or some other hands that wants to protect from draws. But actually you have the nut draw plus TPTK so you want to give worse hands incentive to come along and draw to second nuts.
 
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fundiver199

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Got it in as an 80% favorite for a 300+ BB pot so I guess I shouldn't be results oriented.

Since this was played on PokerStars, you were given the option to cash out, and then you can obviously not complain about the result, when you choose to let it run. Maybe it is sometimes better to just pay that 1% fee and not need to worry about runouts. Right now the cash games on PokerStars are really good, so maybe one can get a higher hourly winrate by moving up and then use the cash out feature to keep variance at bay.
 
Aballinamion

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Ouch! Not really a bad beat but this hand would have more than doubled my profit for the session. I still ran crazy good overall and finished 900+ hands playing 6 tables at a ridiculous 27.5 BB/100 but my All in Adj was 52.76 BB/100. I got a little out of line and played this hand super fast but V literally played 10 hands in a row and raised 3 and three bet one. I really felt like I had the fish on the hook even though it was only 10 hands in. Got it in as an 80% favorite for a 300+ BB pot so I guess I shouldn't be results oriented.
PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players

Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 122.8 BB
BTN: 259.7 BB
Hero (SB): 176.1 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 78.7 BB
MP: 157 BB VP 100, PR 33, 3B 50 (1 out of 2), 10 hands total.

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K A

fold, MP raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 7 BB, BB calls 6 BB, MP calls 5 BB

Flop: (21 BB, 3 players) K 4 T
Hero bets 20 BB, BB calls 20 BB, MP raises to 40 BB, Hero raises to 169.1 BB and is all-in, fold, MP calls 110 BB and is all-in

Turn: (341 BB, 2 players) 9

River: (341 BB, 2 players) 7

Hero:
Pre 65%, Flop 80%, Turn 18%

MP:
Pre 35%, Flop 20%, Turn 82%

MP wins 326 BB
Rake paid 15 BB

Hello there dear friend c0rnBr34d, good to see you are playing 10 NLHE! Shall we take a look on this hand?

The Preflop Action

I like the size of your 3-bet here, because allow us to have a 3-bet range for bluff. Ever since we will get many combos of AK, AQ, AJ, AT, A9, A8, KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, QT, you name it, the smaller sized 3-bet would work more and we can control a little more of the SPR postflop, for not to be commited with 100% 3-betting range. This is positive side.
I see many regulars varying their opening raises and 3-bets for smaller sizes when they perceive that they need to start to 3-bet for bluff, but even so with a logic and strong range for the micros.


The Postlfop

The Flop

We really crushed this flop. And you send a hammer of nearly 100% pot and Villain mini-raises? Sweet or what? :cool:
I don't know if I dare to say it but against this type of player we are going in no matter what. We don't expect a "Tom Dwan" to be sitting at 10 NLHE, to be all creative and raising and 3-betting 100% range (perceived range).
However, we expect that this Villain is just out of line. We must punish it for try to bluff on every single spot and I can't see a better flop than this where, no matter what if Villain has or hasn't anything we have pretty good equity against all of its non-sense range, for example:

Case 1: Villain already has a flush with, whatever, Qd9d for example, or worst, Villain has K7, K4, KT, or even better, Villain could have some spaz made flush with Qd9d plus K7, K4, K9, KT and we look down to Hero's equity and it has 65.76% equity against this range. Awesome!

Case 2: Villan already has made hands that we don't expect it to have very much (it is not the case but good for range illustration) KK, 44 and TT, but in the case it has we still have pretty decent 30.65% equity. Great!

Case 3: Villain has no flushes/draws, straight/draws, but it has only the off-suited combos of KT, K9, K7 and K4, on which on a flop like this we have smashed with 76% equity or more. Fish on the hook! :cool:

I think you played this hand as best as possible versus this kindda a player. No matter what it had or hadn't it is very profitable going in slightly deep stacked versus a tilted one or aggro donkey spaz.
In the worst case scenario (case 2) we still have 30% equity to hit turn river and when you go all in, only a mad one would be calling with second nut flushes, dominated top pairs, sets, anything at all. If the guy is calling you here with sets on a deep stacked pot good for him/her, because given preflop line and 100% c-bet flop you are only representing the nut flush, which Villain never has.
These case are the worst possible cases! We really believe that this type of Villain can shows and bluffs with absolute air.


Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
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c0rnBr34d

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your Cardschat profile has the flag of the united states, how are you playing real money at pokerstars? or is a misunderstand.
That's correct. PokerStars is up and running and legal in a hand full of US states now. I'm lucky enough to live in one of them.
 
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c0rnBr34d

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I think it’s fine as played.

Ok the sizing part I would have probably closer to 12-15bb on the flop. With a pot size bet it looks like you have AA without a diamond or some other hands that wants to protect from draws. But actually you have the nut draw plus TPTK so you want to give worse hands incentive to come along and draw to second nuts.
I agree this is standard. In the moment I felt that there weren't likely to be many strong drawing hands on this flop and that sizing up could look like I don't want action. With the Ad in my hand and the Kd and Td on the board the only made flush should be QJdd in a 3 bet pot. We are blocking KK and still have decent equity against two pair and sets. We also have the 100% VPIP guy behind us and want to get max value. Seemed like a good spot to deviate from standard and try to exploit.
 
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c0rnBr34d

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Since this was played on PokerStars, you were given the option to cash out, and then you can obviously not complain about the result, when you choose to let it run. Maybe it is sometimes better to just pay that 1% fee and not need to worry about runouts. Right now the cash games on PokerStars are really good, so maybe one can get a higher hourly winrate by moving up and then use the cash out feature to keep variance at bay.
This is an interesting point. I hate the idea of paying the extra rake but in the context of playing above your bankroll because all the casinos are shut down and the action is better than normal I may just try this. I never made an online deposit before and have worked the free $20 up to about $250. I was going to start taking shots at 30NL when I hit $300 (just one table of 30NL with a few 10NL on the side). I may use the cash out option if I do, and I may do it before I reach $300 lol. Wish me luck. The whole pot is one pre flop raise at a live 2/5 game so it wasn't really that upsetting from a money point of view. Just frustrating to see people get it in so deep so badly and still win. Have you used this feature before?
 
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c0rnBr34d

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Hello there dear friend c0rnBr34d, good to see you are playing 10 NLHE! Shall we take a look on this hand?


Thanks for your always consistent and through analysis. It felt like a bit of an overplay but I thought it was a good opportunity for it and I turned out to be right. Even if they both fold to the jam we win like 55 BB which I think is a fine result. If we get called by worse it's icing on the cake as long as it holds up and if we get called by better as you said we can still backdoor the nut straight or hit the nut flush or even runner runner boat.

I have no choice but to play 10NL now that all the casinos are closed lol. I'm tempted to make a deposit and move up but I'm still relatively new to online cash games so I keep going back and forth. The rake back should be much better if I can make it to 30NL before doing the deposit.
 
Aballinamion

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Thanks for your always consistent and through analysis. It felt like a bit of an overplay but I thought it was a good opportunity for it and I turned out to be right. Even if they both fold to the jam we win like 55 BB which I think is a fine result. If we get called by worse it's icing on the cake as long as it holds up and if we get called by better as you said we can still backdoor the nut straight or hit the nut flush or even runner runner boat.

I have no choice but to play 10NL now that all the casinos are closed lol. I'm tempted to make a deposit and move up but I'm still relatively new to online cash games so I keep going back and forth. The rake back should be much better if I can make it to 30NL before doing the deposit.

Coronavirus is changing the economy of the entire planet. Well, it is better if you stay home and try to play lower limits and the on-line perspective. I think you are very solid and you will reach 30 NLHE or 400 NLHE, if it is your objetive.
I don't think you overplayed by jamming flop at all: this is the best bluff/value hand that we could have because it is good and then it simply can became sweet on many turns/rivers.
At 2 NLHE and 5 NLHE perhaps I would recommend not to do so, although I am not aware of the difference between rakes, but at 10 NLHE is still very high.
Wish all the best, you are very kind.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
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fundiver199

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Have you used this feature before?

I have mostly played tournaments the past 6 month or so. But when I occationally find my way back to cash games, I have used the cash out feature on Stars sometimes. Including lately because I have withdrawn most of my previous winnings and are not in the mood to either move down or redeposit. Winning two tournaments in this weekend to dubble my balance mostly solved the issue of being underrolled though. So maybe I will stop using cash out now except for shot taking and other special occations :)
 
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fundiver199

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That's correct. PokerStars is up and running and legal in a hand full of US states now. I'm lucky enough to live in one of them.

Just for clarification if someone does not know this. PokerStars have several separate player pools including at least one for those playing in the US states, where online poker has become legal. So even though c0rnBr34d is playing on PokerStars he is not playing against the same people as those of us, who are allowed to play in the original international player pool. For instance c0rnBr34d can not play the anniversary Sunday Million tonight.
 
Aballinamion

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Cash Out?

I have mostly played tournaments the past 6 month or so. But when I occationally find my way back to cash games, I have used the cash out feature on Stars sometimes. Including lately because I have withdrawn most of my previous winnings and are not in the mood to either move down or redeposit. Winning two tournaments in this weekend to dubble my balance mostly solved the issue of being underrolled though. So maybe I will stop using cash out now except for shot taking and other special occations :)

Hi buddy, just a piece of opinion here. I don't like to use the "Cash Our" feature, to me we are simply paying more rake to the Stars Group. If we know that our range is ahead of our adversary no need for cashing out and if we think that our range is breakeven perhaps we should evaluate a little more the spot before going stacks.
I was talking about this with a friend of the forum, Luepso, who also doesn't use this feature. We got into the conclusion that Cash Out is a tool created by Starts to take more fee and rake from recreational ones.
Recreational players are always stackin' so for them, perhaps, it is good to use this feature.
Thank you

Regards;


Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
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c0rnBr34d

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Hi buddy, just a piece of opinion here. I don't like to use the "Cash Our" feature, to me we are simply paying more rake to the Stars Group. If we know that our range is ahead of our adversary no need for cashing out and if we think that our range is breakeven perhaps we should evaluate a little more the spot before going stacks.
I was talking about this with a friend of the forum, Luepso, who also doesn't use this feature. We got into the conclusion that Cash Out is a tool created by Starts to take more fee and rake from recreational ones.
Recreational players are always stackin' so for them, perhaps, it is good to use this feature.
Thank you

Regards;


Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
Hey buddy! I think we all agree in general. The question becomes, at what point does that additional rake become negligible compared to the additional win rate of playing bigger and juicier games? For most players it won’t be worth it. But if you know you have an edge in a game that you don’t have the bankroll to play, this could be a possible solution to avoid losing your roll when you get it in good.

I haven’t used it yet. Do both players in the hand have to opt in? Seems if only one side is in then the 1% is still a loss for PS.
 
Aballinamion

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Hey buddy! I think we all agree in general. The question becomes, at what point does that additional rake become negligible compared to the additional win rate of playing bigger and juicier games? For most players it won’t be worth it. But if you know you have an edge in a game that you don’t have the bankroll to play, this could be a possible solution to avoid losing your roll when you get it in good.

I haven’t used it yet. Do both players in the hand have to opt in? Seems if only one side is in then the 1% is still a loss for PS.

Lol, man what do you mean? If I have edge over the field, I must have a bankroll to play it, otherwise I cannot have edge. I think these two ideas contradict themselves a little. How can we have edge upon anyone if deep on our minds there is the constant warning:

"If you lose 2 buy-ins what are you going to do? Risk to lose another buy-in and then you will have only 7 buy-ins left, what if tomorrow we take another downswing session and lose more 2 buy-ins..? and then, and then.....".


This is the voice of our ego. Sometimes we can hear ourselves, sometimes not. One thing that we can never make is to mistake our own self. Our unconcious mind knows everything before we even blink. Our unconcious mind controls our heart, our brain and always knows what is the best for us (intuiton/instincts).
Our unconcious mind tell us that we shouldn't be playing at a stake on which we can have edge but we don't have the bankroll for sustaning pressure: to have real edge is to have fully emotional and physical control and it is not so easy as to speak about it.
It seems unbelievable for most of players. I was telling a friend that there was a month where I was playing 10 NLHE and lost the entire month! I stayed more than 120 K hands without winning or breakin' even (lose more than 30 buy-ins).
We cannot believe this is possible, we do everything all right and on the river, damn! Villain hits its 2 outs and 3 outs, this is why we should play as many hands as possible, having edge and bankroll to overcome those weird scenarios where no matter what we do, we cannot simply win any flip, the top of our range always cracks versus recreational, etc.
This is aggressive bankroll management, when we always have enough buy-ins to sustain emotional pressure. When we don't have the enough, we are irresponsibily gambling.
Put Phil Ivey right now to play 100 NLHE with only 5 buy-ins. It can be a monster and destroy anyone and in a matter of hours Phil Ivey could have a bank to be playing 1000 NLHE.
However, even Phil Ivey could get hard times versus average regulars and lose its 5 buy-ins in less than 5 minutes or 5 hands played. If you have steel nerves and can sustain this huge ammount of psychological pressure, good, go for it! It is very risk and it seems a lot of adrenaline.

I don't use "Cash Out" because I am not going crazy for stacks as the vast majority of the field. I am going for stacks with my bluffs/values on the turn, when I am the aggressor shoving or when, of course, I have the nuts.
I am simply fighting for defending the blinds effectively and take down a bunch of small pots of 3 blinds, 10 blinds and 20 blinds to me is a very massive pot.
Sometimes we cannot fold, but as long as I can avoid playing for stacks (playing to be always breakeven), I will avoid it.
This is anothe reason why we should play as many hands as possible at cash tables, because in the long run what will really will make the face of our winrate are those very small pots that we are taking in a very high frequency.

Regards
 
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c0rnBr34d

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It’s the same idea of players who use a stake. Let’s make up an example to illustrate. Player A has a 10 BB / hr win rate at 1/2 and a 7 BB win rate at 2/5. Player A was forced to use his entire bankroll to pay a family medical bill. A financial backer has offered to stake player A since he knows he’s a winning player. Should player A play with no bankroll at the smaller game or take the stake deal and play the bigger game? It depends on the cost of the stake. If the cost of the stake is much less than the difference in win rate then player A will still make more money playing the stake at the bigger game while rebuilding a roll. Nothing to do with ego. Just math. Which game is more profitable?
 
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c0rnBr34d

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I have mostly played tournaments the past 6 month or so. But when I occationally find my way back to cash games, I have used the cash out feature on Stars sometimes. Including lately because I have withdrawn most of my previous winnings and are not in the mood to either move down or redeposit. Winning two tournaments in this weekend to dubble my balance mostly solved the issue of being underrolled though. So maybe I will stop using cash out now except for shot taking and other special occations :)
If you don't mind sharing, how did your win rate in tournaments the last 6 months compare to the previous 6 months of cash? Since I'm online now I'm giving more consideration to tournaments.
 
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