A number of decision points; opinions?


PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $6.52 (65 bb)
MP: $21.99 (220 bb)
CO: $8.46 (85 bb)
BU (Hero): $11.44 (114 bb)
SB: $16.43 (164 bb)
BB: $27.49 (275 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with 9♥ 3♣

Preflop I'm usually folding garbage even though I'm on the button, but the blinds are more than full stacks so I'm taking a shot thinking that maybe they'll play relatively straightforward. If one 3-bets, I fold.

3 players fold, Hero raises to $0.25, SB calls $0.20, 1 fold

What do you think?

1. Like the play
2. Hate the play
3. Unsure


Flop: ($0.60) K♠ 3♠ J♣ (2 players)
SB checks,

Flop has two broadway so I C-bet, repping one of the two.

Hero bets $0.30, SB calls $0.30

1. Like the play
2. Hate the play
3. Unsure


Turn: ($1.20) 9♣ (2 players)

I hadn't realized until this point that I had paired the bottom card on the flop, and now I have two pair.

SB checks, Hero bets $0.60,

1. Like the play
2. Hate the play
3. Unsure


SB raises to $1.78, Hero calls $1.18

SB checkraises. If he had a set of 3s, I'd have expected this on the flop.

In retrospect, there are other hands SB could have but at this point I'm guessing a good King so I call.

1. Like the play
2. Hate the play
3. Unsure


River: ($4.76) 8♥ (2 players)
SB bets $3, Hero calls $3

Still putting him on a good King, so I just call his bet.

1. Like the play
2. Hate the play
3. Unsure


No reads; this is Zoom and I haven't been playing much lately and am only a few hands into the session.

Ok the opening. Although your hand is considered absolute marginality, you must have a broader bluff range from BTN and this combination adapts to this sequence, especially when we expect a poor defense of the starting positions. Although you did not abduct the desired effect, at this moment we have the advantage of the position. What worries me is your effective stack, the villains dominate you in the stack and that could be a problem if they decide to pay you, since they will know that they face a lower SPR.
On the flop you must take into account that now many high back doors will pay you your continuation bet. In addition to that the villain could have many flush draw combinations. This indicates that you probably have low fold equity from the villain. So I think your range is in a decision between betting on value or checking this flop. I consider it more appropriate to check in this situation, although if you decide to bet you should choose a larger size, to make them abandon the middle hands or the low backdoors now. I think a bet of 75% of the pot could achieve this effect, if we choose path B to bet here.
On the turn I think a second barrel is a necessary move. You already have 2 pairs. When the villain bets I think you should pay. Because we want to induce bluffs in the villain's range on the river, and we don't have an Ad or Ac in our range so now our hand is a bluff catcher on the river. As played I like the call in river.
Greetings.

Just fold preflop. If you play unusual hands you get into unusual spots which is why you are now questioning your every decision. Keep poker simple, know your opening ranges and stick to them.

Originally Posted by NineLions

A number of decision points; opinions?


PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $6.52 (65 bb)
MP: $21.99 (220 bb)
CO: $8.46 (85 bb)
BU (Hero): $11.44 (114 bb)
SB: $16.43 (164 bb)
BB: $27.49 (275 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with 9♥ 3♣

Preflop I'm usually folding garbage even though I'm on the button, but the blinds are more than full stacks so I'm taking a shot thinking that maybe they'll play relatively straightforward. If one 3-bets, I fold.

3 players fold, Hero raises to $0.25, SB calls $0.20, 1 fold

What do you think?

1. Like the play
2. Hate the play
3. Unsure


Flop: ($0.60) K♠ 3♠ J♣ (2 players)
SB checks,

Flop has two broadway so I C-bet, repping one of the two.

Hero bets $0.30, SB calls $0.30

1. Like the play
2. Hate the play
3. Unsure


Turn: ($1.20) 9♣ (2 players)

I hadn't realized until this point that I had paired the bottom card on the flop, and now I have two pair.

SB checks, Hero bets $0.60,

1. Like the play
2. Hate the play
3. Unsure


SB raises to $1.78, Hero calls $1.18

SB checkraises. If he had a set of 3s, I'd have expected this on the flop.

In retrospect, there are other hands SB could have but at this point I'm guessing a good King so I call.

1. Like the play
2. Hate the play
3. Unsure


River: ($4.76) 8♥ (2 players)
SB bets $3, Hero calls $3

Still putting him on a good King, so I just call his bet.

1. Like the play
2. Hate the play
3. Unsure


No reads; this is Zoom and I haven't been playing much lately and am only a few hands into the session.

Hello there NineLions, thank you very much for sharing this...hand.

The Preflop

I see that it comes in gap for you and you open raise 93o. This is not okay. Many courses and professionals recommend us to be opening 50% of hands from the BTN.
This is standard but for lower limits (200 NLHE and under) players simply call too much and get sticky with a bunch of nonsense, so I see no reason at all to be opening so wide a range IP.
I assume that if you opening 93o from BTN, you are opening more than 80% IP when it comes in gap, which turns the exploitation on your side very easy preflop and postflop.
Let's see your BTN's range preflop:

22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 93o+, 86o+, 76o (82.81%) !!!!

Yes, because if you are okay raising 93o, you are also okay raising 94o, 95o which are much better hands. By logic, you are also opening all of your Tx, Jx, Qx, Kx and Ax needless to say.
You are opening ALL THE SUITED COMBOS, and I guess that from 85o or 84o you are opening as well.
There is nothing else more to say about this hand because I believe you are way over a loose approach when you decide to go for raising these combos. You may arguee that SB and BB and NITs (or fishes), but we must have a common sense for opening.
Lucky for you, the opponent out of position was a fish and you got lucky to flop spaz two pair and get paid by even more spaz 55.
I resume all of these non-sense combos to play from the SB and BB, never use them from BTN or CO.
Besides I believe that only real solid regulars can profitabily be playing 50% hands from BTN. I do not consider myself one solid regular, neither a genious, so I don't do it. 30% is a very loose OR for BTN at the micros and we are going to suffer a ton of 3-bets for value in which we are forced to fold or be even more spaz 4-betting.
The result of this income is totally irrelevant.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

It is a little bit radical to state that we can never be opening more than 50% hands from BTN, when it comes in gap for us.
There are some stealing spots but we must have a decent sample size of hands from the player in the BB specially, because almost all the SB will fold at least 80% of times (I fold 80% from SB), so if you are using HUD, look to utilize the stat Fold BB x BTN and also Fold BB x SB and Fold SB x BTN.
I fold BTN vs BB 42% of times and SB x BTN I fold 81% of times.
A decent sample of hands for looking for these stealing stats are +500 hands played.
If we don't have it or we are not so sure about SB, keep opening just 50% hands hands from BTN to keep your IP's range balanced, and for not to be way to exploited preflop, considering that many players are using HUD display these days and will perceive when we start to get out of line IP.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

Obviously this is a hand that should rarely be played like this in micro stakes. The 95% of the time this hand is fold preflop and this also applies to mid stakes. That is why using the HUD is very important, because it allows you to form solid statistics and eventually go off the standard line without anyone noticing.

Originally Posted by Figaroo2

Just fold preflop. If you play unusual hands you get into unusual spots which is why you are now questioning your every decision. Keep poker simple, know your opening ranges and stick to them.

Thanks, Figaroo.

It doesn't bother me that I'm questioning every decision in this hand; I think every decision in every hand can be reviewed, but this one was so interesting at multiple points because I opted to steal with such a strange hand, and to hit the board with it. Obviously if I miss entirely I'm done with it much earlier and it's not so interesting, but then I wouldn't post it to think about.

btw, I haven't posted on CC in a few years but I do have experience and know my basic range but am not afraid of widening my TAG range once in a while.

Originally Posted by Aballinamion

It is a little bit radical to state that we can never be opening more than 50% hands from BTN, when it comes in gap for us.
There are some stealing spots but we must have a decent sample size of hands from the player in the BB specially, because almost all the SB will fold at least 80% of times (I fold 80% from SB), so if you are using HUD, look to utilize the stat Fold BB x BTN and also Fold BB x SB and Fold SB x BTN.
I fold BTN vs BB 42% of times and SB x BTN I fold 81% of times.
A decent sample of hands for looking for these stealing stats are +500 hands played.
If we don't have it or we are not so sure about SB, keep opening just 50% hands hands from BTN to keep your IP's range balanced, and for not to be way to exploited preflop, considering that many players are using HUD display these days and will perceive when we start to get out of line IP.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

Thanks, Carlos.

I'm less worried about my range. I'm a 9 max TAG by nature and have opened my range in early positions slightly to adjust to 6 max. Most responses seem concerned about the opening rather than the other streets which is where the hand gets more interesting, to me, at least.

I'm not saying 93o is in my general stealing range or that I recommend it to anyone unless they have strong reads and confidence in their post flop play, but that sometimes anything is within my stealing range, and this is the 0.1% of times I opted to do it.

Originally Posted by gustav197poker

On the flop you must take into account that now many high back doors will pay you your continuation bet. In addition to that the villain could have many flush draw combinations. This indicates that you probably have low fold equity from the villain. So I think your range is in a decision between betting on value or checking this flop. I consider it more appropriate to check in this situation, although if you decide to bet you should choose a larger size, to make them abandon the middle hands or the low backdoors now. I think a bet of 75% of the pot could achieve this effect, if we choose path B to bet here.
On the turn I think a second barrel is a necessary move. You already have 2 pairs. When the villain bets I think you should pay. Because we want to induce bluffs in the villain's range on the river, and we don't have an Ad or Ac in our range so now our hand is a bluff catcher on the river. As played I like the call in river.
Greetings.

Thanks, gustav. On the flop I didn't even notice I had bottom pair; all I knew was that I had a garbage hand and two broadway cards came so the cbet was bluff. Had I realized I had something you're right; it's worthy of some protection against flush draws or even inside straight draws. The bet sizing could have been bigger on both streets but I wanted to get through with a relatively small sized pot given the weakness of my hand. Unfortunately SB forced it into a larger pot than I wanted with the check raise and his river bet.

The check-raise on the turn surprised me; I'd have expected a set of threes (not likely, given I have one) or KJ to do so on the flop, and I don't see any point doing so on the turn unless he has a pair of nines that called flop to see if I continued to bet. Slow rolled KK or JJ I could see but that means he opted not to 3 bet them preflop.

Obviously fold pre, play more tables if you're getting bored. You mention you expected them to play straight forward in OP but also mentioned you dont have reads in Zoom. So when you do get called you are in bad shape. As played I guess you have to c-bet this hand since we have bottom pair no draw and the board hits our expected range, even if we are ahead now pretty much every turn card is scary. We hit two pair on the turn so we kinda have to bet again for value the check raise is really concerning though. It feels like QT, a set, or a better two pair. I know Beluga Theorem is for one pair hands but when we have the bottom two pair it's almost the same. I think I fold turn. Is he just waiting for the turn to raise his flush draw? Doesn't seem likely. What are his bluffs, some combo draw like JTss that picked up a gutter? He can continue to call down with Kx. His river sizing seems value heavy too. I don't like bluff catching this river with no reads when I cant find too many bluffs. I fold pre, bet flop, bet / fold turn, fold river. Don't blame you for calling down with two pair though I may have done the same in the moment.

Thanks for your input, guys. It helps me to clarify what I was thinking and how I was thinking, including the fuzzy things on the edges that were there but you don't always realize it until later.


I've only played maybe two dozen sessions in the last three or four years, so there are a lot of fuzzy/edge thoughts.

Just to sum up my thinking, for my own clarity:

- Folded to me on the button in Zoom. HUD is running but I have no stats on the blinds. Because they are over 100 bb I guess, but don't assume, they might be reasonable.


But what I didn't consider is that because I don't have stats on them, if they have a HUD they don't have stats on me and they might consider me to be less experienced than I am, and maybe think I'm inclined to unreasonable plays.


- I steal with 93o. I know it's garbage and I'm playing position and board and hoping they play reasonably. The 0.1% of the time I play this.


- Flop is two broadway. I don't even realize I have bottom pair because I don't have a K or J so I don't even look. I c-bet because it hits my likely range. Bet is on the small size because I want to get through this hand with a small pot, but, I should consider that at this level against an unknown it may look tentative or weak.


- When he calls I'm assuming it has hit his hand or he has a draw. Also possible he's trying to float with some kind of pocket pair though he's out of position.


- On the turn I realize I have two pair but it's bottom pairs and weak so I bet for protection and possible value if he has one pair. Again on the small side but trying to keep the pot small, but again maybe he's seeing this as weak.


- His check-raise on the turn throws me. A set of threes, jacks, or kings should check-raise flop to build the pot and protect against draws that I may have. A set of nines that floated the flop is possible but he should bet out on the turn because I may check behind, and the same with K9. Plus both low set possibilities are less likely given that I have one 3 and one 9.


So he doesn't play like me. I can see no reason for his turn check-raise beyond he thinks he's winning with TPTK , or he's trying to push me off with nothing or a draw.


- On the river I'm planning to check behind, but he bets out.


My guess, in order of likelihood, is 1) an overplayed TP, 2) is absolutely nothing and he's just tried to push me off, 3) a set or KJ or K9, 4) a draw that now has missed.


Given the way he's played the hand and the card combination possibilities I think I'm beating him, but my confidence level is not that high given he's not played in a manner than I understand.

Originally Posted by NineLions

- On the river I'm planning to check behind, but he bets out.

My guess, in order of likelihood, is 1) an overplayed TP, 2) is absolutely nothing and he's just tried to push me off, 3) a set or KJ or K9, 4) a draw that now has missed.

Given the way he's played the hand and the card combination possibilities I think I'm beating him, but my confidence level is not that high given he's not played in a manner than I understand.

Along with pre flop this part stand out to me. Why do we think the most likely scenario is an overplayed top pair. If his K was that big why wouldn't he 3 bet pre? Why is he suddenly deciding on the turn that his K rag is best? To me the hand that best fits this line is QTs. It defends too often from the blinds, flops open ended and turns the nuts. It keeps the turn raise small so that you don't fold your Kx (but you have 2 pair). It keeps the river bet 2/3 to keep you in. If he was trying to run you out of the hand he would polarize either turn or river or both with larger sizing. If he's any good, all of his bluffs will use at least 3/4 river sizing and high equity turn semi-bluffs should be sized up too. I think he shows up with 2 pair, straight, and sets a lot more often than 1 pair if we have no reads. Hope it worked out for you though.

Preflop
Just fold. This is literally one of the worst possible starting hands, and the fact, you are a little deep, changes nothing.

Flop
Not loving this C-bet. To many hands connect with that board. Its not terrible though. 44-TT might fold, which is good, and by C-betting in position you can often get to see both cards for the price of one bet.

Turn
Now you have a value hand, so of course you should bet again. However now you get raised, and this is never a fun spot, unless you have something very nutted, which you dont. QT just made a straight, K9 + J9 made a better two pair. These hands are, what he is mainly representing, so you have a bluff catcher. Even so he could have a bunch of draws here, so have to make the call, even you are not loving it.

River
The river card is a complete blank, but since your hand was already a bluff catcher on the turn, it is still a bluff catcher now. You say, you "put him on a good K", and this is a major mistake. He is not supposed to raise top pair on the turn, and while bad players might do it regardless, this must never be your first assumption, and you need to classify your hand correctly.

This is a bluff catching spot, and without reads you have to either rely on population tendencies or game theory. If you look at population tendencies in the micros, then a raise on the turn and barrel on the river is usually the nuts, and folding will never be a big problem.

However it is 10NL Zoom, where players are a bit better and more aggressive than at full ring regular tables, as I mostly play. There are also two busted flushdraws, which you only block to a very small extend, and you do block some of the two pair combinations, he can have for value, and some sets as well. So this hand is a much better candidate to call with than say AA.

So really its up to you. You can make the hero call, or you can let it go, and in the long run it should not matter to much, which you do. But you need to understand, that you are hoping to see a busted draw here and not a hand like KQ.

Ah, so there you go; I never even considered QT because it's not in the range of what I would call from the blinds with. Then if that's what he's repping, then the flop call and turn check-raise makes sense. Ax and Kx are more the range of what I've seen from calls from the blinds at this level.

And obviously it's not what he had given that I called river and didn't think of it.

With the 93o garbage hand, while on btn, I will only steal if I know that players on the blinds throw out more than 70% of the time. On the flop, I would have made the same bet. On the turn, even though you have two pairs, but a lot of hands are stronger than us: two pairs are older, sets, QT has a straight, so I would fold on a raise

how does the opponent see our range? will we become attached to our hand, which we will turn into a bluff? or am I wrong7

Originally Posted by NineLions

A number of decision points; opinions?


PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $6.52 (65 bb)
MP: $21.99 (220 bb)
CO: $8.46 (85 bb)
BU (Hero): $11.44 (114 bb)
SB: $16.43 (164 bb)
BB: $27.49 (275 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with 9♥ 3♣

Preflop I'm usually folding garbage even though I'm on the button, but the blinds are more than full stacks so I'm taking a shot thinking that maybe they'll play relatively straightforward. If one 3-bets, I fold.

3 players fold, Hero raises to $0.25, SB calls $0.20, 1 fold

What do you think?

1. Like the play
2. Hate the play
3. Unsure


Flop: ($0.60) K♠ 3♠ J♣ (2 players)
SB checks,

Flop has two broadway so I C-bet, repping one of the two.

Hero bets $0.30, SB calls $0.30

1. Like the play
2. Hate the play
3. Unsure


Turn: ($1.20) 9♣ (2 players)

I hadn't realized until this point that I had paired the bottom card on the flop, and now I have two pair.

SB checks, Hero bets $0.60,

1. Like the play
2. Hate the play
3. Unsure


SB raises to $1.78, Hero calls $1.18

SB checkraises. If he had a set of 3s, I'd have expected this on the flop.

In retrospect, there are other hands SB could have but at this point I'm guessing a good King so I call.

1. Like the play
2. Hate the play
3. Unsure


River: ($4.76) 8♥ (2 players)
SB bets $3, Hero calls $3

Still putting him on a good King, so I just call his bet.

1. Like the play
2. Hate the play
3. Unsure


No reads; this is Zoom and I haven't been playing much lately and am only a few hands into the session.

Thank you for your post. Great turn card. Well played in my opinion. Standard button raise and cbet after flop. When you turn two pair I'd be committed. With the the river bet sizing of $3 I'd flat call and take it to showdown with the two pair. Good job


Good Luck To All