$.02/.04 FLO8 6-max: Turn Straight, River Boat...Continue aggression?

[vwls]

UTG: 108.25 BB
Opponent (MP): 49.75 BB (VPIP: 95.18, PFR: 91.57, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, hands: 84)
CO: 40.5 BB
BTN: 66 BB
Player (SB): 120 BB
BB: 10 BB

Player posts SB 0.25 BB, BB posts BB 0.5 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 0.75 BB) Player has T♠ A♦ K♦ J♦

fold, MP raises to 1 BB, CO calls 1 BB, BTN calls 1 BB, Player calls 0.75 BB, BB calls 0.5 BB

Flop: (5 BB, 5 players) 8♥ Q♦ T♣
Player checks, BB checks, MP bets 0.5 BB, CO calls 0.5 BB, fold, Player calls 0.5 BB, fold

Turn: (6.5 BB, 3 players) K♣
Player checks, MP bets 1 BB, fold, Player raises to 2 BB, MP calls 1 BB

River: (10.5 BB, 2 players) K♠
Player bets 1 BB, MP raises to 2 BB, Player raises to 3 BB, MP raises to 4 BB, Player raises to 5 BB, MP raises to 6 BB, Player raises to 7 BB, MP calls 1 BB

Spoiler

MP shows J♣ Q♣ K♥ T♥ (Full House, Kings full of Queens)
(Pre 41%, Flop 70%, Turn 34%)
Player shows T♠ A♦ K♦ J♦ (Full House, Kings full of Tens)
(Pre 59%, Flop 30%, Turn 66%)
MP wins 24.25 BB

 

[dobatibata]

Hey vwls.
Powerful hand, classic pokerstars losing money hand.
Everythings fine for me, except River: Player bets 1BB. I would check and let MP to play. I will not 4time re-raise.
But you can call it bad beat, coz only 1 card can beat you. And he got it.

 

[vwls]

I will not 4time re-raise.

Thanks for the response.

So, are you saying that I should take their aggression as a sign that the King helped them, and that they might have a better full house? I guess I was acting emotionally and could have thought it through.

A lot of my trouble with this hand comes from the fact that I'm new to Omaha, and I'm relatively new to poker. I wasn't certain if this was a bad beat or if I was being overzealous in the situation. You're right. It was a bad beat, but it didn't need to be as bad as it was. I think I put in too many bets at the end.

 

[TimovieMan]

Everythings fine for me, except River: Player bets 1BB. I would check and let MP to play.

That's just silly. We check-raised the turn and have initiative. We HAVE to bet the river.

Since we have the 2nd nuts, we HAVE to 3-bet the river.
I'm never going beyond 4 bets without the nuts, so I would have called his 4-bet.

LOL @ him stopping when you 7-bet. He has the nuts. He should only stop when one of you is all-in.



Is this Everest, btw? Only site I know that removes the 4-bet cap (or in their case 5-bet cap) when it's HU.
At least that was the case 8 years ago.

 

[dobatibata]

That's just silly. We check-raised the turn and have initiative. We HAVE to bet the river.

It was my opinion, my kind of playing. I don't like the fact that the player play poker like they "learn and read" by the book. I love to mix a little bit. so after the check- re-raise i would probably go check, and try to confuse the player. who by the way i agree with you just called with nut hand lol

 

[vwls]

Is this Everest, btw?

It's Black Chip, and I have no idea what happened. It was either a glitch in the software, or I am not familiar enough with the rules. I kept clicking "raise any", so it was automatically raising. At a certain point, I remember thinking, "Wait, this doesn't seem right," and my opponent even seemed to hesitate when making the final call.

 

[TimovieMan]

I love to mix a little bit. so after the check- re-raise i would probably go check, and try to confuse the player.

That's a better strategy vs a thinking player, imo. Not vs this guy.
It's something you start incorporating in your play as you move up in stakes, but not at the micros. Unless villain is a reg, and you have a lot of hands on him.

 

[TimovieMan]

It's Black Chip, and I have no idea what happened. It was either a glitch in the software, or I am not familiar enough with the rules. I kept clicking "raise any", so it was automatically raising. At a certain point, I remember thinking, "Wait, this doesn't seem right," and my opponent even seemed to hesitate when making the final call.

Doesn't sound like a glitch, but a rule. Normally, fixed limit has a 4-bet cap.

Everest had a 5-bet cap, and removed the cap once play was HU. Looks like ACR/BCP are doing the same.

The only time you'll need it, imo, is when you have the nuts. Then you put the Raising Rock on the raise button until your opponent is all-in.


I remember that happening twice in my Everest limit days. Once because my opponent missed that his nut flush could be beat by a straight flush (which I had, naturally), and once because my opponent thought his AJ was going to win vs my AQ on a AQJAX board. The last villain stopped after 14 bets, said "AQ, right?" and called. The first guy didn't stop.

I have a lot of good memories of Everest, despite their sucky software.

 

[Jillychemung]

Almost all live limit games remove the cap when it is heads-up.

Please raise this hand preflop!! and then lead it on this flop.

As played I probably would have just called after my 3rd bet on the river. Highly unlikely that villain is doing this with TTxx/88xx so that leaves QQxx but that would be raising the flop and spazzing with broadway but they'd be spazzing on the turn too. I'd think that getting 12BB into the pot is about right for risk vs reward with the 2nd nuts against this villain.

 

[vwls]

Thank you, everyone, for responding.

The first guy didn't stop.

That's funny. I'm picturing both of your stacks incrementally getting lower, bet by bet. People like to talk about how beautiful and epic NL is, because you can "put a player to a decision", but this bet-by-bet situation sounds so much more devastating. It's not just one, ill-fated decision. They're digging their own grave, scoop by scoop.

Please raise this hand preflop!! and then lead it on this flop.

I'd think that getting 12BB into the pot is about right for risk vs reward with the 2nd nuts against this villain.

My aggression needs work. Since I'm new to the game, I have been trying to see flops as cheaply as possible, until I can get a better feel for hand selection. My plan against this particular opponent was to let them control the action and simply continue when I wanted to. That said, their aggression was mostly pre-flop. They open raised every hand, they 3Bet every raise, and they capped every 3Bet. Their CBet and Turn CBet were both 80+, but they did seem to know when their time in the hand was done, at which point they would call down, rarely actually folding. They weren't likely to ever fold two-pair, but I still think you are right that I should have been more aggressive before the Turn and River. I think it would have been more practical to get my bets in earlier than the River.

By the way, your live thread looks awesome, and I will be following along. When I first started learning, I didn't realize that there were online options for US players, so I focused on preparing for live play. My focus has shifted since discovering online options, but Twitch shows like Live at the Bike have again gotten me excited for eventually playing live. It looks like a lot of fun.

 

[vwls]

Doesn't sound like a glitch, but a rule. Normally, fixed limit has a 4-bet cap.

By the way, you were correct. Black Chip does remove the cap. Funnily enough, I have had to explain it to a few other perplexed players.

 

[TimovieMan]

By the way, you were correct. Black Chip does remove the cap. Funnily enough, I have had to explain it to a few other perplexed players.

Too bad I gave up on LHE. Cap removal is very +EV vs monkeys.

 

[c9h13no3]

Easy flop raise, and don't cap the betting on the river since you don't have the nut full house.

Preflop is standard, raising here is pretty bad with a high only hand.